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GaldraChevaliere wrote

Accessibility. Most people can't afford to eat a fully balanced vegan diet, or don't have access to the information to be able to make that kind of choice even if they could. Food deserts are a thing, and to be honest, you're asking a lot of people to give up foods and ways of life that they grew up with. However necessary it might be (and I'd argue that there's no ethical consumption under capitalism since most vegetables are either industrial monocultures or exploited from poor workers growing them e.g quinoa), the majority of people just aren't going to give up beef or mutton or pork if it's cheaper to feed a whole family with a couple steaks than it is to plan out a vegan meal and if their culture values those foods as comfort/soul food.

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rot wrote

I'm afraid I'll lose too much weight and animal products are an easy source of calories. Convenience, most junk food isn't vegan.

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bloodrose wrote

Cooked meat has a high caloric content and that is likely one of the reasons humans began to eat it (plus it is a "storable" food so food security). However, I can tell you, as a fat vegan, I can put in plenty of calories with baked potatoes and Earth Balance alone, LOL!

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Fossidarity wrote

I actually gained a lot of weight since becoming vegan, I used to be very skinny and now I'm just skinny. Becoming vegan is probably not the reason that I've gained weight but it might have influenced it because I enjoy food a lot more now.

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urg3t0ki11r151ng wrote

I like meat and would kill animals to eat them even if the meat industry did not exist. Vegan arguments--in my experience anyway--tend toward moral arguments about mistreatment of animals. I see the mistreatment of animals as a symptom of the meat industry and capitalisms endless drive toward more profit. Veganism seems like a consumerist solution to an industrial problem. I am not set in my ways however. I would like to know, why are you vegan?

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curious OP wrote

Meat and dairy consumption involves an awful amount of waste and harms the planet, first of all. But to me, industrialization is not the entire problem, I view any use of an animal as abuse. No animal would consent to being used, killed or otherwise and its forced use is therefore exploitation. Although industrialization and factory farming make these issues much more pronounced, even backyard chickens or hunted venison are ideas I am not comfortable with, and this would be mistreatment even outside of capitalism. An inability to consent is as good as a lack of consent, and animals want you to know: no means no.

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GaldraChevaliere wrote (edited )

I don't know about you, but I'd consider a nearly instant death by a .308 or an arrow to the heart a much kinder way to go out than being trapped in a cage up to your knees in shit before someone finally 'humanely' dispatches you with a bolt gun to the back of the head. Predation is not unnatural, for humans or for animals. Nobody wants to be eaten, but when we frame it in these terms and anthropomorphize animals, we're contributing to a lot of the same arguments that justify the extermination of predator species that are otherwise keystones of their ecosystems. Where I'm from the deer and beaver population is so out of hand for lack of wolves or even coydogs that I'd argue it's an obligation to hunt and keep their numbers in check. A couple years back one of their dams got so big it shunted off the whole river and flooded the lowlands around it which pushed more of the animals out and into dangerous contact with cars and territorial farmers. And every well-run small farm that can directly serve its locale does at least contribute a little to dismantling our dependency on industrial scale agriculture and livestocking. None of this is to say you're wrong or shouldn't be uncomfortable with eating meat or eggs or milk if it still doesn't feel right to you, but it is to say that out of several bad options, hunting and subsistence farming are some of the less awful ones.

e: I'd also like to say that backyard chickens are probably one of the best options to roll with. If you buy your chicks and hand-raise them, they'll love you about as much as a chicken can, and it hurts the hens none that you harvest the eggs as long as you don't take the ones they've chosen to lay on. You need a rooster to fertilize them, until then they're inert little packages of yolk and the chickens (or other fowl, especially guinea hens) care none if you take them.

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daniel wrote

I made the choice to purchase a farm, raising much of my own food including eggs, chicken, fruits and veggies. All my animals are 24/7 free-range and fed organic/soy-free. Raw milk and yogurt from grass-fed cows is another big part of my diet, I know the producers and go directly to their dairy to pick it up. I also purchase a monthly package of mixed meats from a local purveyor,

This December's package is $90 and you get:

4 pounds ground beef

2 pounds stew beef

3 pounds cube steak

6 pounds chicken legs & thighs

4 pounds boneless chicken breast

3 pounds bacon

4 pounds bone-in pork roast

1 pound breakfast ham

I support my local farmers and local economy, eat high quality food, and get all my shopping done in one or two stops.

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[deleted] wrote

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CircleA wrote

It's not really an advertisement, they're not offering to sell you anything.

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[deleted] wrote

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CircleA wrote

They have a very flawed idea of food and sustainability if they think using land to grow meat makes any logical sense. They could just be eating the food they grow themselves and be food secure for life, and even feed a whole village of people, instead of growing acres and acres of grain to feed to a few animals that give them just a few lbs of protein. Growing meat is like supporting inequality and starvation.

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libre_dev wrote

I'm more concerned with what is best for the atmosphere, and veganism is not necessarily the best approach. Case in point: keeping the moose population down is important to keeping the spruce and pine population up. I see nothing wrong with eating game, and I am suspicious of anyone who thinks killing is strictly wrong.

The meat industry is horrible tho, and I haven't bought meat at the store in ages. The dairy industry is probably not much better, but I haven't taken that step yet.

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BoneScythe wrote

I regard all actions as objectively morally neutral unless persuaded otherwise.

I feel empathy towards other sentinent animals, but this is an emotional fallacy and not a rational reason to abstain or comit towards an action. This emotional reaction is most likely a product of evolutionary reciprocal altruism to further spread human genes that is accidentally triggered by other species.

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GaldraChevaliere wrote

Big brain science berk misreads Nietzsche, thinks abstaining from pointless cruelty is moralism, more at 11.

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BoneScythe wrote

Just logged in again from 2 years ago. Competent brain berk confuses Darwinian Reality with moral objective truth. Tune in at 11 for our article on how zoomers wasted $50,000+ dollars in degrees in emotively driven irrational non-scientific bullshit. I start with first principles, not hand me down edicts.

Sarcasm aside, I've been listening to a Youtuber called 'AskYourself' who actually makes some rational contributions towards promoting veganism. E.g. Name the trait.

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curious OP wrote

Yeah, get a load of this guy. Don't let him get his hands on any Stirner or he'll grossly misunderstand that too.

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BoneScythe wrote (edited )

Logged in again here two years later to reply to another thing and saw your messages.

Please don't read the "The Selfish Gene, by Richard Dawkins", or you may holocaust a race of people due to a misunderstanding of reality as synonymous with moral objective truth.

Sarcasm aside, the youtuber 'AskYourself' is at least making rational arguments for veganism via "name the trait". So far I haven't been able to refute this argument. As a result I've commited to a reduced exploitative diet, with a mind to reduce it further periodically (progressively goal oriented) with time.

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