Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments

kore wrote (edited )

Reply to comment by celebratedrecluse in pre-civ or post-civ? by curious

It seems that you're using "domesticated" in a pretty abstract way here and I'm just wondering what it means to you because I don't think many people here understand "domesticated" in the way that a lot of primitivists do. You're implying a whole lot with it without really analyzing what you're implying.

2

Fossidarity wrote (edited )

According to Wikipedia:

Domestication is a sustained multi-generational relationship in which one group of organisms assumes a significant degree of influence over the reproduction and care of another group to secure a more predictable supply of resources from that second group.

So probably what they're talking about is that the roots of hierarchy lies in the control over the reproduction of another group, which makes a lot of sense to me.

This is valuable in an abstract way as well I think, because if it's for example about reproduction of ideas than hierarchical systems want to control/limit the propagation/reproduction of ideas: thus censorship.

4

kore wrote (edited )

It's very interesting that the Wikipedia article reproduces the actual quote further down the page, which includes the second clause "and through which the partner organism gains advantage over individuals that remain outside this relationship, thereby benefitting and often increasing the fitness of both the domesticator and the target domesticate."

What primitivism does not offer (I find) is an exploration of this idea. I personally believe that humans and dogs can live in symbiosis, for example. Their skills suit each other well. I admit though that a vast majority of people in relationships with dogs do not give dogs the autonomy they deserve. To be more abstract, human children exchange some degree of personal autonomy for safety and education, and I think to argue that this is involuntary is to belittle the intelligence of children. (They often run away if they're losing more than they're getting).

2

celebratedrecluse wrote

I mean by domestication both the external domestication of the earth by humans, and the "internal" domestication of humans by other humans: patriarchy, class stratification, authoritarianism, etc.

To me, and I think many primitivists (again, i am not a primitivist-- it's not an identity for me), these two aspects of domestication are deeply intertwined.

2