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moto wrote

Wouldn't an environmental collapse cause an instant economic collapse though?

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BigGeorge wrote (edited )

Well, an isolated economic collapse won't end capitalism, and neither would an isolated environmental collapse.

The rich are able to insulate themselves from environmental collapses for quite a while. As long as they can afford to build their climate controlled gated communities and have the privilege to migrate further and further north when those communities can no longer be sustained, and as long as they can afford to import their food / fuel from whatever corners of the world are still able to produce it; they'll be fine and capitalism will live another day. Even when the markets plummet and the currencies are massively devalued - they'll still have far more real wealth (property, resources) than the rest of us, so it won't affect their power level much. Cash money isn't what determines their wealth - ultimately it's what they own. If they own the land, they control the food, and thus control us.

The western rich won't be hit hard by collapse until literally the entire rest of the planet is in ruins. They can afford to hole up and prop up a form of capitalism until they have nowhere left to go to escape the effects of collapse.

The 'West' (Euro-cultures - including far-flung ones like New Zealand) will collapse last (after squeezing every drip of blood out of the rest of the world), but once the West falls, the capitalism (really feudalism at this point) parasite will have nowhere left to hide.

But of course, at that point billions will have died horribly and the environment will be wrecked for millennia.

I guess environmental collapse will precede economic collapse; because no matter how much property they own, it'll be worthless once it's on fire / under water, and they won't give up capitalism / their power until there's literally no other option.

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gooey wrote (edited )

I guess environmental collapse will precede economic collapse; because no matter how much property they own, it'll be worthless once it's on fire / under water, and they won't give up capitalism / their power until there's literally no other option.

But this presumes capitalism is in their control when it's actually a total crapshoot. They can't control how the stockmarket fluctuates.

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BigGeorge wrote (edited )

The people I'm talking about don't give a shit about the stockmarket. They own real wealth: land, mines, water sources, oil fields, nuclear power plants. A Great Depression won't kill capitalism, it'll just render all the classes under the ruling class into a single 'poverty class' and the ruling (capitalist) class will keep on trucking.

As long as they control everything the 99% depend on to survive, capitalism will stick around.

When their real wealth evaporates or is rendered obsolete (which will take a total collapse of their highly insulated Western civilization); that's when capitalism goes away. But there might no longer be any point struggling to survive in the wasteland Earth will be by then.