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4

ziq wrote (edited )

This is gonna be hard because I don't value those arguments so I'll have to lie.

It creates in you a propensity to focus on your immediate material desires; gaining a shallow gratification from the products of capitalism rather than building a more sustainable praxis that bypasses the desire for 'things' so you can live independantly of the system and make your own things.

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bloodrose wrote

I mean, this is an argument against theft of products. What about squatting? Or illegal foraging? This argument is only good for "don't steal x-boxes". And since you don't value said argument, I'm sure you don't mind me pointing out its weakness. :)

5

ziq wrote (edited )

There's really no way to make a good argument against illegalism. That was the best I could do and if someone said it to me I'd instantly poke it full of holes. Being against illegalism is like being against survival. Any argument would be coming from a place of extreme privilege. No better than people who think no platforming fascists is counterproductive and we should debate them instead.

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rot wrote

It sounds like the argument is that illegalism isn't good praxis. It isn't a good argument because how can you tell if it's good until you see the effects? Is squatting less effective than going into the wild to live? Idk? Probably not but who knows?

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bloodrose wrote (edited )

But you can't go into the wild without squatting now. When everything is owned, not purchasing something is illegalism all on its own. It's illegal to dumpster dive. It's illegal to sleep on the streets. So mere existence outside of the machine is illegalist.

Btw, I think we're all agreeing with each other. :)

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PerfectSociety wrote

It creates in you a propensity to focus on your immediate material desires; gaining a shallow gratification from the products of capitalism rather than building a more sustainable praxis that bypasses the desire for 'things' so you can live independantly of the system and make your own things.

Why do you disagree with this argument?

3

ziq wrote (edited )

Because there's no reason you can't do both. Take what you need from the system while building a life apart from the system, like a commune as far from the law's reach as you can get. And then when that commune inevitably needs resources that can't be gained from nature (medicine, books, animals, farming equipment, solar panels, appliances, satellite dishes, computers), go back to the city and take them. Self-sufficiency works best when it's aided by illegalism.

I steal fruit and irrigation pipes from the rich farmers around my homestead. When I'm in town, I dumpster dive for food, furniture (outside a furniture warehouse usually - they dump cosmetically damaged furniture), appliances (an appliance store warehouse - when people buy new appliances, the store takes their old ones for recycling) and firewood (I steal palettes).

I also stole a new bathtub from a construction site and use it as a pond, as well as lumber, rebar and cabinets, and I take whatever other opportunities like that arise.