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ziq wrote (edited )

Make it impossible to do business. Flash mobs robbing every store everyday. Mass civil disobedience.


Tequila_Wolf wrote

I don't believe that it will inevitably collapse, I think it has the capacity to adapt to whatever situations it's faced with if it's given enough time. I'm interested to hear why you do!


nov wrote

Also capitalism is a fairly broad concept and is often somewhat hand wavy. If you are talking about the collapse of something, a specific and active function, I would like to have a greater sense of what we mean here.

Owners collecting rents?

Regulatory capture by large entities?

Market based resource allocation?

Expansionary economics?

Unsustainable production methods?


Fossidarity wrote

I'll just take the first 2 lines from Wikipedia:

Capitalism is an economic system based on private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit. Characteristics central to capitalism include private property, capital accumulation, wage labor, voluntary exchange, a price system, and competitive markets.

This suits what I want to see collapsed well enough.


nov wrote

In which case, my answer is probably never. Voluntary exchange wont collapse ever. Private property in at least some its forms will never collapse. I doubt price based markets will disappear.


Fossidarity wrote

I think that all systems will eventually collapse, be it at the destruction of the solar system by the sun dying. But that's not really constructive for this conversation.

I believe that the collapse of capitalism in it's current form will happen. Of course some elements might be preserved and it might even be replaced with something much worse. But I do believe that the high level of ecological unsustainability will lead to ecological collapse which in turn must lead to at least the end of the current form of capitalism. The question is what form it will mutate in to or if it will be replaced completely by something else (hopefully something better).

I realize this all sounds a bit wishy-washy but nobody can predict the future of course.


amongstclouds wrote

I don't think anyone or any group or any thing has any say over what comes next and how soon this thing comes. Time isn't a straight line -- I like the idea of Indras Net as an example of how all phenomena interact together.

Here is the metaphor: In the realm of the god Indra is a vast net that stretches infinitely in all directions. In each "eye" of the net is a single brilliant, perfect jewel. Each jewel also reflects every other jewel, infinite in number, and each of the reflected images of the jewels bears the image of all the other jewels — infinity to infinity. Whatever affects one jewel effects them all.

In our modern world there is this idea that time and life itself moves in some 'progressive' direction, but things are much more complex and chaotic than that. There is a whole myriad of things pulling everything else in it's own direction at the same time and in all directions.

It's the idea of control that has us in our current state of affairs. The Curse of Greyface is certainly real in some shape or form.


fuckworldtrade wrote

The more strikes we have, the closer we get to revolution


fjones wrote

disable the big daddy state, it always comes to rescue: the unfair markets, the rich's bad investments, the inevitable tendency for profit to decrease, the involuntary exchange of life time for money, the wage slavery, the slum rentiers to the poor, the interest system and inflation, the military and police necessary to enforce business law, the creation of a "superior class", through management, the ruinment of nature and the earth for profit, the stockholders who extract wealth by simple ownership, the "have-mores" as bush said


bloodrose wrote

I don't know. But if we don't, the world will burn and collapse first.


rot wrote

I don't know if we want to advance it or replace it. Late capitalism becomes fascism countering it before that would be better. A little late in most places.