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ziq wrote

A FOSS and bigot-free alternative to reddit basically.

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[deleted] wrote (edited )

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Tequila_Wolf wrote

Though there are a lot of anarchist memes since the main posters are anarchists, a lot of the memes seem to me to be generically anti-capitalist, or queer, but you're more than welcome to post different political memes. It might start some conversations.

Btw, memes about state-forms come mostly from people who make Deleuze memes, and Deleuze was more into Marxism, and not at all anarchism (though I think he's very anarchist). Which is to say, even Marxists shouldn't have much trouble with critiques of state-form if they're keeping up to date with their theory.

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[deleted] wrote (edited )

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Tequila_Wolf wrote

There's a critique of mass organisation / mass society that comes from post-left anarchy, if you're interested in looking into it. Unfortunately I don't know good readings offhand or I'd post some. If anybody does know good readings, please do post some, I'd like to read them.

I'd like it if people made decent memes calling out anarchists - from my perspective that meme points to a legitimate critique of classical Marxism regarding state-forms. Which is to say, it would be nice if instead of cutting down on critique by anarchists of other tendencies, that those tendencies would start doing some critiquing of anarchists and others themselves.

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[deleted] wrote

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ziq wrote (edited )

Tankies don't help radical spaces, they destroy them. I'm not welcoming to tankies for that reason.

What raddle could use is more demsoc types; people that are actually capable of growth and not attracted to a creepy dictator-personality-cult where any thought that threatens to expose their dogma as being dangerously reactionary is furiously stamped out.

Authoritarian leftism is a deadend. Raddle was never posing as an space for authoritarians. When they come here thinking it's for them, they're always in for a rude awakening. Those that stick around are bound to clash with anarchists because they represent everything we struggle against.

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ziq wrote

Are you a vanguardist?

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[deleted] wrote (edited )

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ziq wrote (edited )

I mean either you support a vanguard or you don't. I only call MLs that defend Stalin / Mao tankies. If you're talking about the person who was offended by my anti-stalin meme then yeah I consider them a tankie. I think any anarchist would.

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[deleted] wrote

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ziq wrote (edited )

Those anarchists weren't anarchists and I was just trying to understand your perspective by asking about your politics.

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[deleted] wrote (edited )

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ziq wrote (edited )

It's literally impossible to support vanguard hierarchy while being an anarchist. It's like saying "I'm vegan but I eat cheeseburgers".

http://anarchism.pageabode.com/afaq/secH5.html

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[deleted] wrote

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ziq wrote (edited )

I asked if you were a Vanguardist which has a very specific definition. Whatever you're on about obviously has nothing to do with this convo about radical leftist politics.

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ziq wrote (edited )

different political memes

I think the fact that all the memes are political at all is prob what puts most casual visitors off. They don't expect a general meme forum to be 100% niche politics. Most forum posters probably avoid politics altogether. So when they see a site is 100% politics, they prob click away and look at minecraft memes elsewhere or something.

I can't even rly talk about politics with my partner. I doubt many of us kno ppl irl who would want to endlessly discuss this dense stuff all day for years like we do. The learning curve is too high and the return on the time investment is pretty insignificant ultimately for most ppl who use the internet to get away from the shit raining down on them in the real world.

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Tequila_Wolf wrote

I generally just treat f/memer as a political memes forum and would rather if we had another meme forum for other things. But yeah, I don't see myself posting there.

I mostly just spend time with radicals, except work/family situations and what could be called 'radical outreach' (keeping it vague), and I politicise pretty much all of my random interactions, so I'm not used to thinking about this.

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ziq wrote (edited )

I think the best way to radicalize people is with a trojan horse. Give them what they want, and then slowly splice in radical messages in a way that doesn't overwhelm them. Most people tend to immediately dismiss anything that takes them out of their comfort zone.

You're good at appealing to people that are already deep down the rabbit hole and should keep doing it because it's your strength. My biggest concern though is bringing new blood in and the existing base of online anarchists has been pretty much tapped.

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Tequila_Wolf wrote

I have no idea what'd work. Have you been doing the Trojan horse method so far?

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ziq wrote (edited )

There's no way to do it unless it's a collective effort. I've done it elsewhere before but raddle has far too big of an anarchist bent to attract anyone that isn't already on our wavelength... and raddle's wavelength is really really deep on the electromagnetic spectrum. Early on I made some inroads attracting FOSS advocates, but most of those people aren't interested in taking FOSS further; to its natural destination (anarchy) and so raddle is intimidatingly radical to them and they don't stay.

Even with pre-existing leftists who you'd think would be jumping to join raddle - Your basic reddit white anglo leftist is completely out of their element here.

Not to mention your typical USSR-loving vanguardists that just straight up don't like sharing a space with people that make it their duty to pop their little authoritarian bubble. This audience is used to spaces where any criticism of their ideology is instantly labeled counterrevolutionary bourgeoisie propaganda and the dissenter is spat on and cast out. When we don't provide them with that, they leave in disgust (or worse, they stick around long enough to want to change the site to meet their authoritarian ideals).

If even self-identified radical leftists don't stick around here, there's little hope we'll ever get apolitical and politically-immature people invested.

Most people don't respond well to the notion that they're ignorant, and there's no way that the average self-important entitled Internet user isn't going to be ignorant for a long time before they can figure out all this dense stuff we take for granted because our particular minds are wired for this hyper-niche stuff we talk about.

Trojan horses... r/collapse articles on reddit, for instance, are good at opening eyes and then it's only a small step from that into anti-capitalism once they're gently shown what is causing all this destruction.

Capitalists try to use collapse stuff as trojan horse to sell prepper gear and supplies.

Fascists try to recruit there too, but they'd have a hard time convincing people that their methods do anything to address the catastrophe of mass industry, so they pretend to be apolitical and whine that 'commies' are ruining the space by blaming collapse on capitalism, to try and shut down any inroads at anti-capitalist outreach.

When I promote raddle in apolitical or liberal spaces, the highest voted responses are always "clicked link, saw all the featured forums/top posts were shoplifting/anarchism/acab, closed tab".

Everyone is looking for an excuse to not embrace anything new. To not challenge their ego or worldview. They'll take literally the first excuse that is offered to them to dismiss the scary new idea/platform and never think about it again.

Understanding how to break through that blend of fear, arrogance, ignorance and self-entitlement is an artform in of itself. It would take dozens of accounts working in unison to trojan horse raddle. To make it appear normal on the surface before gently prodding users towards anarchy once they've invested themselves and allowed their egos to open the door to their minds a bit.

I edited my previous comment btw to add another line.

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ziq wrote (edited )

Most of the users are anarchists because anarchists are about the only ppl that give a shit about building a better link sharing / discussion platform. Everyone else is fine with the giant steaming turd that is reddit. Unless they're in the KKK, then they use voat.

We've already outlasted lots of other big budget reddit alternatives like Imzy, so as insular as we are in our personal interests, we're at least dedicated as fuck to our mission.