Disorder

# amongstclouds wrote at July 14, 2018 at 5:44 AM

I do not think chaos is the same thing as disorder. Order and disorder is entrenched in the subject-object dichotomy and chaos is something beyond as it contains both order and disorder within it's range.

# ziq wrote at July 14, 2018 at 6:10 AM (edited at July 14, 2018 at 6:10 AM)

Is there an example of chaos that can be easily digested? Because I don't really follow.

# amongstclouds wrote at July 14, 2018 at 1:34 PM

Copypasta incoming of some useful ideas and concepts you could look into!

Chaos Theory: Predicting the future of a chaotic system is intractably hard. Failing to account for the tiniest thing can have a profound effect over time. Because of this, we'll never be able to accurately predict even the weather more than a few days in advance, let alone human behavior, animal behavior, the stock market, etc.

Quantum Mechanics: Even if we had a perfect mathematical model for a system, we could never provide accurate inputs to that model.

The Uncertainty Principle says we can't know everything about a particle's state at a given point in time.

The Copenhagen Interpretation gives the Universe a probabilistic nature. We can reason about the probability of outcomes, but cannot state exactly what an outcome will be.

Gödel's incompleteness theorems: We can never have such a perfect mathematical model for everything, because there will always be some theorems which are true which cannot be proved.

Halting problem: We cannot even identify the theorems which cannot be proved, nor can we guarantee algorithms we write will produce an answer in a finite amount of time, nor can we necessarily know up-front that an algorithm may not produce an answer.

It's all the same idea. There's a boundary on what we can know, model, and compute. There is no clockwork model for the Universe.

# amongstclouds wrote at July 14, 2018 at 1:31 PM

There are limits to human understanding. For a time people imagined the world to function like a machine. If we just simply understood how everything existed and how they function, we could understand anything there is to know. Sadly, there are people who think they can exceed those limits and those are the people we should be wary of.

Chaos theory states that trying to predict the movement of a chaotic system is painstakingly hard. Missing even the most obscure detail can seriously effect the future of said system. Through this we should see that we’ll NEVER be able to predict human behavior, animal behavior, nor even the weather with any ounce of REAL confidence.

Chaos is just the ebb and flow of many intersecting points. The idea of order and disorder are grossly human and attempt to exert control over the chaos that truly envelops everything. This all turns back to the problem of domestication. We truly think we can be the masters of everything. We’re going to fall flat on our face soon.

# rot wrote at July 14, 2018 at 5:25 PM

This is the problem with questions like is X good? When talking about abstract notions like chaos.

# rot wrote at July 14, 2018 at 5:31 PM

So a lack of intelligent planning i.e. random chance or lack of formal organization like a mosh pit where everyone runs around "chaotically" but there are limits and participants consciously choose independently what to do?