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surreal wrote (edited )

i mean... no, for reasons i just explained

where?

edit: if you mean the article, i will get on it

duelism doesn't mean that the one can exist without the other

do animals have consciousness?

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Dumai wrote

no, i mean, the important difference between a human brain and a computer is that a computer is entirely syntactic, which doesn't change no matter how complex it gets nor how much input you give it

4

ziq wrote

What evidence do you have that we're not operating entirely based on rigid predetermined code?

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Dumai wrote

if we're machines, then we're patently different machines to computers. this isn't an argument about the possibility of artificial intelligence outright, this is an argument about whether artificial consciousness could exist within a computer simulation. on the first question: science doesn't know. on the second question: probably not.

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surreal wrote

even so, why does this prevent the existence of consciousness. in eastern philosophy even rocks have it. do you believe that animals have consciousness?

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Dumai wrote

even so, why does this prevent the existence of consciousness.

because it means a computer has no actual experience of any sign it encounters, it just has some pre-set rules for organising symbols

do you believe that animals have consciousness

yes

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ziq wrote (edited )

it just has some pre-set rules for organising symbols

That's basically what humans do. Our behaviours are completely predictable, as if our responses to stimuli are hard-coded into us. Experience X + Stimuli A = Reaction XA.

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Dumai wrote

i mean hard determinism is kind of not a very respectable position but that's not the point

the point is a computer can only organise and manipulate linguistic symbols but they have no semantic awareness of these symbols

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ziq wrote

not a very respectable position

Really dumai? I'm not some philosophy grad, do you have to be so elitist? Idk wtf hard determinism is but it sounds like insular thinking along the lines of "a bunch of distinguished gentleman philosophers I've studied would scoff at your thoughts so they're not worth my time". You often use very condescending language to communicate and it almost feels classist.

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Dumai wrote (edited )

i'm not a philosophy grad either

i just know that the position you described is called "hard determinism" and that i don't think it's very well-considered

i'm not speaking for anybody but myself here