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13

GrimWillow wrote (edited )

yes

your "forefathers" were pretty fucking brutal TBH

8

selver wrote

Of course. It wasn't just a fight for the land, Europeans dehumanized indigenous people like Germany did the Jews. I think you're severely understating the racist ideology underlying colonialism.

-7

OKC wrote

But the difference is they were able to fight back and successfully defend their lands for centuries, which makes it more of a war than a holocaust.

7

selver wrote

Sounds more like a difference in the ability to defend themselves between the Jews & the indigenous, not a difference in ideology between Nazis and Settlers.

2

retiredaccount wrote

The Soviets fought back and won, even though Slavs were targeted in the Holocaust and Generalplan Ost. Again, not just Jews. It was also a war of genocide.

7

ravengrace wrote

There were a lot of similarities and differences, both using concentration camps to commit genocide, but I don't really know what you mean by "fair". The goal of "your forefathers" was and is to exterminate all indigenous people from this land in order to extract resources.

-3

Copenhagen_Bram wrote

How do they exterminate all indigenous people from this land in order to extract resources in 2018?

6

ravengrace wrote (edited )

  • destroying/ cutting off sources of food and water through industry and displacement
  • indigenous children are disproportionately apprehended by social services and removed from their communities. Disproportionate amount of deaths within the system.
  • police and industry workers are responsible for thousands of missing and murdered indigenous women and girls (meaning the police and industry workers are directly murdering them)
  • industry brings "man camps" to small indigenous communities, sometimes doubling the population with white men who bring sexual assault, drugs, and violence to the community
  • The history of genocide including residential schools, reserves, etc, is quite recent. There are still people living today who lived life pre-colonization. -assimilation -making sure indigenous people are in a state of poverty so extreme that they feel their only way to survive/ have any quality of life is accepting resource extraction on their land, mostly owned by american companies
  • Do your research before asking questions like this
2

Copenhagen_Bram wrote

what's wrong with my question?

5

ravengrace wrote

its just a lot of emotional labor when you could have googled it or read a book. :) (I don't mean that sarcastically)

5

Copenhagen_Bram wrote (edited )

oh, sorry

yeah it is sad :(

and thank you and ziq for doing some of the research for me. I'm doing some research of my own. Funny how it's called the "Indian" health reservation.

5

retiredaccount wrote (edited )

All genocides fit into the category of 'genocide' and are thus compared by default, so... yes?

Also, 'our'? This site isn't even hosted in America, nevermind American-oriented.

3

GaldraChevaliere wrote

Genocide's genocide, and I dunno about your forefathers, but my forefathers were busy getting shot by the English in their own damn homeland instead of trying to conquer someone else's.

3

succtales_backup wrote

why Our? are you assuming that everyone here is a white person living is a settler colony?

3

ziq wrote

I don't see why you'd need to compare genocides, it's not a contest.

-5

OKC wrote

Because I see leftists call it a Holocaust and I think it's incorrect to say that as it happened gradually over hundreds of years as part of colonization where both races fought each other for the land. The Holocaust was a deliberate policy by a single man to exterminate a race. They had no chance to fight back.

4

retiredaccount wrote

by a single man

The Holocaust was perpetrated by hundreds of thousands of people working together to bring forth the end of the race, as was the colonization of America. The Generalplan Ost was also to happen gradually; Nazi Germany collapsed before they could, though. If you look into the Nazi's long term plans for the Eastern Europe, its much more like colonization than a quick act.

-2

OKC wrote

But colonization is much different than the Holocaust. They weren't colonizing Jewish lands, they were exterminating them for being Jewish. Not because we needed to spread across America but they were hostile to it like happened with the Indians.

5

GrimWillow wrote

The colonization of the americas not only includes bigger and longer holocausts, but nazi germany was a thing a much shorter amount of time than US has been a thing. Throw in all that modern stuff that gets ignored like vietnam, gulf war, korea, afganistan, iraq war, etc..and you got yourself one doozy of an evil empire that you're defending there.

If you don't believe there was a deliberate extermination of indiginous on Turtle Island, here's an easy to digest starting place about US's history: http://www.historyisaweapon.com/zinnapeopleshistory.html

4

retiredaccount wrote

Again- Generalplan Ost. The Holocaust was colonization; the Jewish people were exterminated, yes. But they were mainly from Poland, and to be replaced with Germans. They also slaughtered a near equal amount of Slavs to Jews, if you look at the statistics. Generalplan Ost was a long-term colonization plan regarding Russia. Read about it and come back, please.

1

Zzzxxxyyy wrote

When did raddle become a right wing message board?

1

retiredshared2 wrote

There's one guy being a moron with tons of downvotes... what does that have to do with the site as a whole? Is this a joke or a troll itself? I'm legitimately confused.