Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments

3

Dumai wrote (edited )

sure, of course zazen and zen in general are pretty individualised as far as these things go -- doesn't change the fact that you are practicing a meditative discipline established by the organisation of the zen priesthood.

1

amongstclouds wrote (edited )

Zazen isn't just an individual practice. Sitting has the power to see beyond the delusions that are constantly pummeling us both personally and on vast social scales. Someone who is using Zazen to just get rid of stress or figure themselves out are not properly sitting in silent illumination.

Zazen itself though is nothing special. Tbh, this all goes so far beyond words I'm not sure why I'm getting this worked up. I just hope you understand how long I have dedicated myself to understanding. I've practiced Zazen for over ten years and will admit my first 2-3 years was full of delusions. But after constantly practicing this sitting finally cultivated my unique understanding of Dharma. I don't know anything at all, but I am confident in my practice and understanding.

2

Dumai wrote (edited )

oh i do understand that, and i specifically tried to avoid bringing it into question because there was no way for me to know either way unless you said so. but if you are as devoted to dharma as you clearly seem to be then i don't see how you're "picking and choosing" and "not getting hung up on the details". there's probably a lot said and done by other practitioners of zen that you disagree with, but that'll be because of your dedication to zen as you understand it, right? it doesn't seem to be the case that you simply find some part of the tradition distasteful vis-a-vis individual attachments. you tell me if i'm wrong.

1

amongstclouds wrote (edited )

The only way I can word it without writing a whole novel is that my current understanding is due to my practice, but that sounds close, in that this is just my understanding.

All parts of the tradition and it's history are important but there is so much beyond just the mere words and images. It's just one part of something totally outside of rational understanding. To explain it's history and the structure is important at first. You need stability and a firm base. Then comes the point where that base has to be demolished or you are no longer being you but something else entirely.

1

amongstclouds wrote

To quote Linji: If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him! Meaning if you find the Buddha outside of yourself then it's not the Buddha.

1

amongstclouds wrote

It's much more complex. If you go back and read the conversations between master's there are endless disagreements. There is also the sheer number of schools that sprouted up based on local religions and beliefs.

Siddhartha himself said not to believe anything anyone says even if it's the Buddha itself. Zen goes far beyond hierarchical notions of dogma.

3

Dumai wrote

cool! i agree. but i think radical christianity pretty easily does that too. i probably wouldn't be a quaker otherwise.

and if we're talking about endless disagreements and multiple sects and schools of thought... anyone who has ever even begun reading christian theology knows christians love disagreeing with each other. endlessly. it is basically one of our favourite things to do! any tradition that could encompass both the catholic left and the most conservative of reformed calvinists is pretty clearly at war with itself, lol.

3

amongstclouds wrote

Also sorry if I came off as aggressive. I've gotten kind of use to people on Raddle being jerks, but you never are. ❤

3

Tequila_Wolf wrote

Hooray for a productive conversation from different viewpoints that didn't devolve into a shitstorm!

:D

Good job everybody :)