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14

leftous wrote

I disagree there. Yea, they are a bit frustrating to deal with since they pretend to have the moral high ground while enabling a completely brutal system. However, I can't forgive the way conservatives actively make the world unsafe for the powerless.

At least liberals have a "conscience" I can appeal to. I can say "hey you want to help the poor and less fortunate right?" the liberal will gleefully nod along and smile. The conservative will say "fuck you and your fucking poor and less fortunate". Nothing is more frustrating to me than those who will deny their humanity and the humanity of others. Fuck conservatives.

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[deleted] wrote

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leftous wrote (edited )

I disagree, you can probably get those exact words out of many conservatives if you tack on the word "refugees", "muslims", "trans people", or "blacks". I unfortunately encounter them frequently, and face their rage if I even dare to suggest that the most fucked over people in the world deserve basic dignity.

Maybe the point in our disagreement is that 'conservative' is quite broad. You are invoking the very classic view of the social conservative - the highly religious conservative who frequents charity and church events. But even many of those who do exist, they have a very narrow view of what counts as "poor and less fortunate". They may see white homeless vets as worthy of their pity and charity. But the moment they don't fit their narrative of what qualifies as "the poor" (basically Jesus looking folks), they suddenly become "lazy" and worthless - less than human. On top of that, social conservatives are one of the largest supporters of the apartheid state of Israel e.g. American evangelicals.

The conservatives I most frequently encounter are fiscal conservatives where "balancing the budget" is king, and getting your own is far more important than charity. The second most frequent group of conservatives I encounter are the outrage, fake news radio type right-wingers. They focus way more on "defeating cultural marxism" (i.e. enabling oppression), than good deeds and charity.

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[deleted] wrote

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leftous wrote

Not sure what the hostility is for, but you should chill. You must obviously be misunderstanding me. Let me break this down so it's more understandable.

You are shifting the goalposts. Now you say 'you can probably get those exact words out of many conservatives if you tack on the word "refugees", "muslims", "trans people", or "blacks".'

I am not shifting the goalposts. I was giving examples of communities where I live that tend to be 'poor and less fortunate'. That is, I was articulating that when conservatives are given solid examples of poor and less fortunate individuals, they tend not to care (or in some cases actively hate) if caring will have any potential impact on their life.

The conservative will say "fuck you and your fucking poor and less fortunate".' And that means that this is a thing that you do and this is what happened as a result, at least one time. I'm trying to make points that relate to yours. For example I could ask where and when you meet the "conservatives I most frequently encounter" but that was a mistake before and I think it would lead to the same sort of reply if I tried again.

Do you really not understand I wasn't quoting a conservative individual, and instead was generalizing the "conservative" attitude towards poor and less fortunate groups? Lol this is a ridiculous thing for you nitpick, and shows poor reading comprehension or just plain dishonest argumentation.

Many relatives and coworkers of mine are conservatives, so I commonly encounter their attitudes of apathy, hatred, or even casual mentions of genocide towards the majority of 'poor and less fortunate' groups. A conservative saying "fuck refugees", "we should just kill them all", etc. is actually pretty common here.

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[deleted] wrote

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leftous wrote

I would say it's rude and hostile to attack me for my experiences and misunderstanding me.

Although to be honest, I think my second post was a bit of a ramble and all over the place, so my bad on that. I see why you might have thought I was just shifting the argument (instead of trying to elaborate on my point, as I intended).

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Tequila_Wolf wrote

It's all kindof a blur for me. The idea that you can get a liberal Zionist especially just makes it all seem to be a similar kind of garbage.

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selver wrote (edited )

Yes, I'm with Zizek on this one. Foucauldian power annoys me more than old school power. The outcomes of their policies are largely the same, but conservatives are more honest about it. If liberals really gave a shit about people, they don't have to go far to read something that'd make them give up the liberalism. Their hypocrisy has been so obvious to me from a young age that I can't really buy into the idea that they've got good intentions but are misguided. It would require so little work for them to realize they are wrong that I don't believe their feigned humanism.

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ziq wrote (edited )

I honestly don't see any differance. It's like an orange M&M and a yellow M&M.

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liberal_one wrote

Are you annoyed by liberals or the caricature of liberals?

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Dumai wrote

both

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liberal_one wrote

Well there you go, you're buying into conservative propaganda.

Everyone screwing you is a conservative, not a liberal. Liberals don't control giant corporations, very few are billionaires, and very few are in Congress. They don't have any power, they don't control anything. They don't control the media (no, not even MSNBC. When was the last time you ever heard a pro-labor union story there or on TV anywhere? Never).

Sorry, you've bought into a propaganda machine run by the rich who don't want anyone else taking their stuff.

As for the other caricatures, I find it's usually of teenagers being teenagers. They want to save the ecology and stop war and protect animals and not get shot etc. You were a teenager once yourself.

Take a close look at who is telling you what and why. If yet again it's another TV meat puppet corporate lacky blaming negros, think about who is paying for that message and why.

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Dumai wrote (edited )

Everyone screwing you is a conservative, not a liberal.

"everyone screwing you is a right-liberal, not a left-liberal" there's actually a fair bit you and your modern conservative agree on, and your respective political heritages can both be traced back to enlightenment liberalism! ever think there might be a reason reagan and thatcher are typically referred to as "neoliberal"?

Liberals don't control giant corporations, very few are billionaires

warren buffet michael bloomberg george soros tom steyer robert iger larry page jamie dimon tim cook bill gates i mean i could name pretty much every CEO from silicon valley if you like

Sorry, you've bought into a propaganda machine run by the rich who don't want anyone else taking their stuff.

i live in a country with a progressive metropolitan upper-middle class and a privileged liberal commentariat, both highly invested in erasing class politics - i'm not allying with them just because they hate blue blood conservatives for being more explicit about their class sympathies

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liberal_one wrote

Suit yourself. Work on your punctuation.

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Dumai wrote

it's always nice when people run out of arguments and resort to taking pot-shots at my casual internet writing style