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AudibleAnarchist wrote

Educated

Conservative

Pick one.

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Dirtbagleftist wrote (edited )

Sadly they exist. A friend of mine is one of them.

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shitty_orangutan wrote

I disagree having lived and worked in UT. So many mormons, many of them well educated (I know several fairly conservative PhD's). Granted these are not the gun waiving uber trump supporters you probably imagine, but they are republican conservatives nonetheless. To some extent I also agree with some of the conservative principles (mostly economic in nature) though I consider myself a liberal (pro choice, voted for hilary etc).

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An_Old_Big_Tree wrote

Different ways, but most of the time I keep quiet, and when I do get interrogated have to field questions from them collectively I just do my best to frame my engagement in ways that will appeal to their sensibilities and that will cut through their thoughtless common sense (read: capitalist) pre-made responses.

I'm working on it.

It's also tough balancing the urgency of getting the thoughts across, towards a preferable world, and the fact that people's identities are deeply bound-up in their shitty beliefs in ways that get people's backs up.

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shitty_orangutan wrote

"As many of you know, there's something about becoming a parent that concentrates the mind on long-term problems like climate change. It was the birth of my daughter that inspired me to launch this climate organization, in order to counteract the excessive polarization of this issue in the United States, and to find a conservative pathway forward. Yes, folks, a Republican climate solution is possible, and you know what? It may even be better." interesting ted talk on climate change

I think a bridge can be forged on many issues, but each group has too many stupid, pre-conceived notions about the other.

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An_Old_Big_Tree wrote

In my case I don't live in the US where there are these developed kinds of notions about conservatives as a group. Mostly people are divided into racist or not and capitalist or socialist, and liberals aren't so easy to come by.

Also I am an anarchist and since they are mostly unheard of where I am from there are no substantial preconcieved notions about what I am.

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ziq wrote (edited )

I don't talk politics with my immediate family. It wouldn't end well. I don't talk to extended family at all.

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zorblax wrote (edited )

you don't have a responsibility to be a shining star of communism. I personally never talk about politics unless someone says something racist or (cis)sexist.

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An_Old_Big_Tree wrote

I personally never talk about politics unless someone says something racist or (cis)sexist.

This happens often enough with my family that I'd endlessly be talking about politics if I took your route. Instead it seems I have to really pick my battles. The alternative seems to be taking a stand and then destroying what relationship I have left with them, which is a painful prospect.

At the same time, I wonder what new possibilities would come into being in a world cut off from them.

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jaidedctrl wrote

Easily enough. Just bite my tongue and don't talk politics. It's completely pointless to. Yea, they're "educated" (read: took Capitalist economics classes, read a couple books, and now thinks they're smarter than everyone else on the planet), but they're so restricted in thought it's ridiculous. No joke, 90% of our arguments are over semantics. It's fucking insane. We'll spend hours arguing about the definition of a single god-damned word, even with dictionaries.

Here are a couple of the more frustrating examples:

Relative: Morality comes from the law.
Me: So was Harriet Tubman in the wrong? Was Hitler in the right?
Relative: We're not talking about that.


Relative: Socialism means government controlling some of the economy— so EU countries are socialist.
Me: Well, the other half of the definition is worker control of the economy.
Relative: But the other half says "democratic control of the economy," so they're socialist.
Me: … that's not how definitions work. You can't just fulfil half of a definition and say, "yea, that's close enough."


Relative: Piracy is stealing because it leads to lost sales.
Me: Libraries lead to lost sales, too. Functionally, borrowing a book and pirating it have the same result: no profit for the author.
Relative: Well, lost sale means "sales lost illegally," not legally.
Me: Let's say copyright law didn't exist— in that world, if piracy wouldn't cause "lost sales" by your own defintion, how could you possibly argue for copyright laws to be implemented in the first place?
Relative: Well, you'd point out how piracy leads to lost sales.
Me: But in this world, piracy isn't illegal. Like you said, "lost sales" mean "lost illegally"
Relative: We don't live in that world, we live in this one.

He's a smart guy, I think… he's just so smug and completely incapable of considering anyone else's POV.

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shitty_orangutan wrote

"Relative: We're not talking about that."

God damn, I'm right there with you on this one.

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zombie_berkman wrote

i havent talked to my parents in probably 2 years. problem solved. plus my life is now a lot less stressful

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An_Old_Big_Tree wrote

Obviously feel free not to answer, but what's that been like - not talking with your parents? Do you have siblings or extended family that you still engage with?

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zombie_berkman wrote

i played ESO with my brother last week and its not something we bring up. i dont really talk to my moms side because shes a real piece of shit and they dont talk to her. my dads side is too close so i cant really talk to them with out them ruining everything so i just go to my gfs parents place for holidays. no use trying to do otherwise since every holiday at home just gets ruined

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leftous wrote

The best approach for dealing with these fools is the Socratic approach.

That is, talk to them like they know more than you at first. Then start poking holes in their position with objections and real world examples. They will start to doubt themselves and hopefully privately question the coherence of their worldview. So you start hitting them with some agreeable questions "Hey how about those lobbies and corporate influence? All these politicians are corrupt..." etc. The more general at first, the better to guage their frustration with it. Then you move in with the leftist propaganda.

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Infinity wrote

Sometimes when you repeat back to people what they say in the form of a question they can hear what they sound like.

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