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zorblax wrote

Yes. Guilt does jack shit materially and nationalism of any kind is a cancer.

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marx wrote

Guilt does jack shit

You're right. Whites can't just feel guilty. They also need to take active, actualizing steps to destroy the systems of white privilege that benefit them. But they should absolutely feel guilty on top of that, and if they don't, I don't see how they'd be motivated to do so.

nationalism of any kind is a cancer.

Please tell me that you're not seriously conflating oppressed PoC banding together for their own survival with fascist nationalism. That they're both called "nationalism" is nothing more than a flawed convention caused by an etymological quirk. There is a huge difference between them. Or do you believe in the dictionary definition of racism too?

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zorblax wrote (edited )

But they should absolutely feel guilty on top of that, and if they don't, I don't see how they'd be motivated to do so.

I don't think so. Guilt is a terrible motivator imo, sort of a catholic-style way of getting people to do things if they don't really want to. I don't consider guilt-motivated altruism to be much more than patronizing charity.

Please tell me that you're not seriously conflating oppressed PoC banding together for their own survival with fascist nationalism.

We seem to be talking about different forms of black nationalism. There are people out there who seriously think that parts of the US should become a black ethnostate.

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marx wrote (edited )

I don't think so. Guilt is a terrible motivator imo, sort of a catholic-style way of getting people to do things if they don't really want to. I don't consider guilt-motivated altruism to be much more than patronizing charity.

Fine, it shouldn't be their (entire) motivation. Their motivation should be to make the world a better place and help their fellow man. But if they don't feel at least a little guilty about the unearned benefits they receive from white privilege, then they are probably terrible people anyway.

There are people out there who seriously think that parts of the US should become a black ethnostate.

Can you blame them? Obviously in the long run all nations and borders should be abolished, but in the short run for many populations of PoC kicking whitey out entirely would probably be their best chance of literally surviving. It is incredibly privileged and close-minded to dismiss their real and pressing concerns in the present because it doesn't line up with some ideal of utopian praxis.