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marx wrote (edited )

I say keep it simple. Put up "it's NOT okay to be white" stickers. Fuck pandering to white fragility. We all know that the real meaning behind "it's okay to be white" is "it's okay to wholeheartedly endorse your white privilege without ever thinking about it". Shut them down. Let them know we fully understand what they mean, and that it is NOT okay to be white as they understand it (or in any way other than "I'm not ignoring that I am coded as white arbitrarily based on my physical phenotype and given privileges that I don't deserve, and I'm trying to fix it"). It is NOT okay to support the social construct of whiteness.

I mean of course it is okay, in a hypothetical society that does not privilege it for no good reason, to be melanin deficient. You can't control that. But it is NEVER okay, in this society or any other, to be "white", because whiteness is an artificial social construct invented specifically to oppress people. It is not okay to be white. Let them know and fuck their reactionary feelings.

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zorblax wrote

Keep in mind that none of this will be conveyed by a one-sentence sticker and such a sticker will hurt the feelings of everybody not already on the far left, not just racists.

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marx wrote (edited )

You can't change minds without confronting people. Like I said, it is literally not okay to be white. Whiteness is a social construct that needs to be abolished. This can't be done without hurting someone's feelings, just like redistributing wealth and giving workers control of the means of production can't be done without hurting someone's feelings. Are we going to stop saying "all cops are bad" or "eat the rich" too? You could hurt a rando's feelings! They could be rich or their dad could be a cop.

I'll say it again: fuck the feelings of the privileged. Their feelings have been endlessly catered to for centuries. Time's up.

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zorblax wrote

Hey, just sayin', from a propaganda standpoint it's a very bad move.

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marx wrote

Because attempting to use "moderate propaganda" has worked up until this point and hasn't led to a massive resurgence of fascism.

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zorblax wrote (edited )

Doesn't have to be anything moderate about it, but I think "it's not okay to be white" is a bad slogan. It appeals pretty much only to black nationalism and white guilt, neither of which are very positive things.

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marx wrote

...Black nationalism and white guilt aren't good things? Are you sure?

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zorblax wrote

Yes. Guilt does jack shit materially and nationalism of any kind is a cancer.

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marx wrote

Guilt does jack shit

You're right. Whites can't just feel guilty. They also need to take active, actualizing steps to destroy the systems of white privilege that benefit them. But they should absolutely feel guilty on top of that, and if they don't, I don't see how they'd be motivated to do so.

nationalism of any kind is a cancer.

Please tell me that you're not seriously conflating oppressed PoC banding together for their own survival with fascist nationalism. That they're both called "nationalism" is nothing more than a flawed convention caused by an etymological quirk. There is a huge difference between them. Or do you believe in the dictionary definition of racism too?

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zorblax wrote (edited )

But they should absolutely feel guilty on top of that, and if they don't, I don't see how they'd be motivated to do so.

I don't think so. Guilt is a terrible motivator imo, sort of a catholic-style way of getting people to do things if they don't really want to. I don't consider guilt-motivated altruism to be much more than patronizing charity.

Please tell me that you're not seriously conflating oppressed PoC banding together for their own survival with fascist nationalism.

We seem to be talking about different forms of black nationalism. There are people out there who seriously think that parts of the US should become a black ethnostate.

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marx wrote (edited )

I don't think so. Guilt is a terrible motivator imo, sort of a catholic-style way of getting people to do things if they don't really want to. I don't consider guilt-motivated altruism to be much more than patronizing charity.

Fine, it shouldn't be their (entire) motivation. Their motivation should be to make the world a better place and help their fellow man. But if they don't feel at least a little guilty about the unearned benefits they receive from white privilege, then they are probably terrible people anyway.

There are people out there who seriously think that parts of the US should become a black ethnostate.

Can you blame them? Obviously in the long run all nations and borders should be abolished, but in the short run for many populations of PoC kicking whitey out entirely would probably be their best chance of literally surviving. It is incredibly privileged and close-minded to dismiss their real and pressing concerns in the present because it doesn't line up with some ideal of utopian praxis.