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lettuceLeafer wrote (edited )

Ehh it depends on the person and the drug imo. Some do make me more fond of authority while some enhance my anarchist activity.

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metocin wrote

Medicinal and spiritual use (as in psychedelic use) is permissible to me but any recreational use is bound to be detrimental in some way. I'm curious what drugs "enhance your anarchist activity" and why you think that is.

Asking in good faith btw

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lettuceLeafer wrote (edited )

Well my argument has two different points. One for me personally and one for the general population.

For me personally I would be classified by most psychiatrists as someone with so called bipolar with psychotic characteristics. My last period of several month sobriety included me hallucinating shadowy figured invading my living quarters, believing that I was being stalked by an organized group who was poisoning my food and water and drugging me in my sleep and that all my friends and family were in on it. To say the least I was incredibly ineffective at doing anarchy. Outside of severe calorie restriction and drug use I haven't really been able to live without psychosis.

Though for a more interesting argument is about the average population. I think some drugs are non conductive to doing anarchy for many people. I would say alcohol and cannabis are the ones that come to mind. And drugs which significantly shorten life and cause additional medical problems such as cigarettes.

Now for a more interesting talk about the drugs that I find conductive to do anarchy. Kratom, opiates, racetams, rapè, phenibut, nicotine gum, caffeine.

Now you have said a critique of opiates that they are exploitative of people in undeveloped countries which is true. Tho opiates can be produced in most climates but just aren't due to drug enforcement making it incredibly unpractical. So yes that is a good critique of current opiate use though they being ethically locally produced is quite possible.

I would say most of these drugs when used in moderation and not as a coping macanism are incredibly useful in putting their users in a mindset to be less anxious about following their desires, more euphoric to help catalyze people making difficult but overall good anarchist changes and help level out the emotional destress of when anarchist projects go badly.

Oh and one more I would say drugs that put people in better moods when used in moderation help people be in a mindset where the emotional strains of dealing with the horrors of the world are far less likely to cause anti social reactions such as being more likely to be upset with someone for making mistakes that make your already shitty life worse on accident.

I.e. a situation where you would be mad at someone for accidentally making your life worse because you emotional capacity for dealing wit negative stuff and letting it blow over is full. While if you were consuming a drug like kratom your emotional tolerance for suffering would be higher and you would have the emotional capacity to weather the stresses if day to day life and be empathetic to someone's mistake and quickly forgive them.

For example in my sober periods where things haven't gone to absolute shit emotionally when someone might do something like accidentally break something really important to me or require a favor of me when my schedule is chock full of stuff to do.

My response typically is

Ugh, that fucking sucks. I'm really upset wit u right now but it will take me some time to get over.

And yeah Im way too busy I won't be able to help you.

While regularly consuming drugs my responses are reliably.

Quickly getting over the loss of something important to me and giving myself time to reflect and process my emotions later but be empathetic and make sure the other person is not feeling guilty or shitty about their mistake.

And in the second scenario it usually is. I'm really busy right now so I'll have to check my schedule. I know you are in a pinch so it will be my pleasure to help u out if I can. Though it would be best if you could avoid putting me on the spot like this so I'm not put in a more difficult situation. Though I understand and I'm sure you would do the same for me. Then I usually figure out a day to fit in the time to help them.

Edit: I have thought of a few more ways to explain what I'm trying to say but its long enough as it is and I won't bother to type it out if you understand what I mean. But if you don't just ask.

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metocin wrote

I understand what you're saying. Obviously for yourself I would consider that a medicinal purpose and would not go against anything I believe.

I am aware that opiates can be produced in many climates (cocaine cannot but you also didn't advocate for cocaine use anyways). I read about a reddit user growing their own poppies one time which was pretty interesting. I think there is a serious risk for people using kratom and opiates in terms of tolerance, addiction and withdrawal. All drugs have legitimate uses even beyond strict medical use. But the issue comes from the side effects.

My belief with drugs is that you're often "borrowing from tomorrow" for lack of better term. For example with alcohol it may be fun to go out drinking at night, until you are hungover the next day. I would abuse alcohol only in party settings but I was a multiple-times-daily cannabis smoker for 10 years. What happens there is you get high now but end up tired and lethargic later. I'm sure you understand this already but I'm just trying to describe why I think drug use should be avoided unless it is necessary (such as in cases like yours).

I would prefer that we work on our emotions individually and collectively with friends and family in order to avoid situations where we feel we could/should use drugs (when not medicinally necessary).

For a long time I felt as though cannabis was a necessary part of my life but now I see that through 'personal development' (for lack of a better term) I can thrive without it, without alcohol, etc.

I definitely understand your point of view though.

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lettuceLeafer wrote

I understand what you're saying. Obviously for yourself I would consider that a medicinal purpose and would not go against anything I believe.

I don't really like the medical vs recreation binary tbh. Like even in my instance while it is useful for what you would consider medical it also has the same effects of using it recreationally.

I am aware that opiates can be produced in many climates (cocaine cannot but you also didn't advocate for cocaine use anyways). I read about a reddit user growing their own poppies one time which was pretty interesting. I think there is a serious risk for people using kratom and opiates in terms of tolerance, addiction and withdrawal. All drugs have legitimate uses even beyond strict medical use. But the issue comes from the side effects.

yeah, like I said as long as used responsibly opiates aren't much of a problem. For me using stuff that activates opiate receptors just 3 times a week or less usually eliminates most problems associated with tolerance and withdrawal. And if you aren't using it as a coping mechanism addiction isn't much of a problem. Tho this depends on the person.

My belief with drugs is that you're often "borrowing from tomorrow" for lack of better term. For example with alcohol it may be fun to go out drinking at night, until you are hungover the next day. I would abuse alcohol only in party settings but I was a multiple-times-daily cannabis smoker for 10 years. What happens there is you get high now but end up tired and lethargic later. I'm sure you understand this already but I'm just trying to describe why I think drug use should be avoided unless it is necessary (such as in cases like yours).

I think about it the same way though in my experience it isn't such a clear calculation. I can pretty reliably use kratom daily for months (not advocated for) and have significantly increased emotional resiliency. Though once you stop you will have very little emotional resiliency for 2-3 days. Now yes you have taken from the future but how I use its more picking and choosing when I have the days where I am far less emotionally stable which allows me to know when I'll have a bad day and prepare (i.e not have much responsibility and kinda have some days off). So I would say its more accurate to say that drugs let you choose which days are bad and which ones are more stable which is incredibly useful. Though I brought up long term use as for me personally long term use of kratom and alcohol makes my life overall more enjoyment even considering the horrible withdrawals.

Also I think the experience of expecting and choosing to withdrawal is an incredibly useful experience. making the active choice to be incredibly emotionally upset and dealing with that really builds up your skills to cope when material situations will make u upset. Once I was able to weather the storm that is withdrawal from ethanol most emotional turmoil in life is quite manageable.

I would prefer that we work on our emotions individually and collectively with friends and family in order to avoid situations where we feel we could/should use drugs

me too. Though I think drug use can be helpful in increasing emotional resiliancy so one can take the hard step forward to start building healthy habits. i.e. incredibly depressed so you take some amphetamine and then gain the motivation and start building healthy habits when otherwise you wouldn't have had the power to start making healthier habits. I personally don't advocate for drug use for those who are having effective enjoyable sober lives. Hell, I don't advocate for non drug users with shitty lives to start using drugs. Despite this I can see lots of value in drug use in doing anarchy and building a healthier life.

I think people have to go about it a very specific way and that most drug users relationship with drugs is toxic and a net negative.

For a long time I felt as though cannabis was a necessary part of my life but now I see that through 'personal development' (for lack of a better term) I can thrive without it, without alcohol, etc.

I think thats the best scenario.

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[deleted] wrote

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metocin wrote

I don't necessarily include caffeine in my conception of straight edge/drug free/sober as I think for most people it is more so a medical use than a recreational use. Drinking monsters to stay up late and play games or pre-workout to lift wouldn't count.

I would consider it medical use that many of us rely on it to survive through the work day and the education system. Prior to the middle of this semester I had not consumed any caffeine since I went drug free earlier this year. I plan to quit my use of caffeine once I am less overwhelmed and have more time to sleep. I also hope that in the future I don't let things such as work or school push me to start consuming it again, as I don't feel in control of myself the way I normally do. Self control, discipline and clear-headedness are very important to me.

Even though 'medicinal use' may be the case for most, I think it is still in most peoples best interest to avoid the use of it, as it is still a drug. If there is any 'gateway' drug, it's caffeine as I would imagine it is psychoactive drug that most people try before any other. It teaches you to normalize and justify the use of it, which can lead to you doing it with other drugs that are more detrimental to your health and well-being. I say all this based on my own experience. It is obviously helpful for being productive but it negatively affects your sleep which is so fundamental to your overall well-being.

Beyond just the aspect of the drug itself, there are critiques of caffeine use that pertain to anarchism. The vast majority of caffeine consumed is from tea leaves or coffee beans. These are cash crops grow in global south countries that are predominantly consumed in the north/west. So racialized, economically disadvantage people living in former or currently colonized countries work for petty wages to produce what are often luxury products for white europeans and north americans. This trade is made possible by economic imperialism and globalism, and the 'need' for caffeine is entirely created by capitalism.

Why should we, as anarchists, consume a product that is only needed because we are exploited and is only available to use because racialized people in poor countries are even more exploited?

A very similar critique exists for cocaine and heroin, as both of these drugs are produced in poor countries and exported to richer ones. It is even more insidious however due to the nature of the illegal drug market and the violence involved with it.

This is not to say however that we should shame or place blame on the users of drugs as there are obviously many factors that lead to drug use that are often out of the immediate control of the users. It is important that we recognize these critiques and that they are the result of systems of oppression, not just bad decisions by individual actors.

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