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kin wrote

I was just provoking the troll there.

For me, the whole original class categories are expired: middle class, proletariat, lumpen, bourgeoisie, third state, working class.. None of this make sense anymore, I don't want a new universal category, and maybe we don't need a new one. And I don't want to imply any reactionary argument of erasing economic oppression and domination, but with proletariat comes the proletariat ideology, herd-like behaviour etc..

in a society where we all have to food on the table

Setting this as the entry point is troublesome as many of the world population struggle to reach survival levels. And the mom and pop shop of our whole life is not a threat, the in-law who hires a couple of homies to help his contractor business grow is not a threat. These people support communities and even help ex-cons with "opportunities".

I would say that the average person, if given enough time, can figure out their main source of oppression and from what I hear is always the State and Big Capital

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halfway_prince wrote

I was just provoking the troll there.

lol ok that makes more sense

Setting this as the entry point is troublesome as many of the world population struggle to reach survival levels.

this i'm interested in. (the following is a take that i'm trying out, please argue with it if you think it's flawed) I feel like the rise in unhoused folks around the U.S. specifically has shown demonstrated that many folks in "developed"/"wealthy" countries are far more vulnerable to small perturbations in financial stability than we typically assume when comparing to a country that has highly visible poverty consistently. I'm definitely not trying to say the material conditions are near equivalent, but the mindset and social consciousness of the average person in the U.S. (for example) is far closer to the brink of extreme poverty rather than long-term stability. I think this mindset can be so entrenched that even when some folks are able to escape and reach a genuine stable position, they're not able to really escape that bottom couples of rungs on Maslow's hierarchy. This scarcity mindset shapes and influences their selfish wealth-accumulation tendencies in a way that is dissonant with their needs.

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kin wrote

Well I do think we will watch an increasing deterioration of the living conditions everywhere, and for many reasons, but I can't tell if the situation in the US is worst now than was with Reagan for example. Lots of crisis are cyclical, the difference being the US is in their final decline now.

I really don't have a firm position when comes to comparing people across borders, first because I only know some parts of the world and second because it is different to be poor and have access to quality public services and having money but need to spend it on everything. Maybe our perception is generational too.

And other thing we usually do in the internet is to disregard how low the standart for a person in extreme poverty is. It's People on this situation is struggling with food, with dietary deficiencies and derivated health issues. And this struggle is chronic. It is kind of a cognitive dissonance we have (internet crowd as whole).

And I totally agree with you, the perceived stability of the average 1st worlder is a total illusion. That's why in communists will say that if you receive a salary, even if a doctor's (or any other high prestige professional) salary you are working class. If can't stay more than a couple of months without working and getting paid, i.e. you don't have capital that allows you to "survive" without working, you are working class.

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lettuceLeafer OP wrote (edited )

For me, the whole original class categories are expired: middle class, proletariat, lumpen, bourgeoisie, third state, working class.. None of this make sense anymore, I don't want a new universal category, and maybe we don't need a new one. And I don't want to imply any reactionary argument of erasing economic oppression and domination, but with proletariat comes the proletariat ideology, herd-like behaviour etc

Yeah that's kinda how I'm starting to feel too

And the mom and pop shop of our whole life is not a threat, the in-law who hires a couple of homies to help his contractor business grow is not a threat

Idk, I think people who put themselves in a position of power over others kinda are a threat. While I think working for someone for a wage doesn't necessarily have to be done away with I think having workers is bad if they don't have the position to not be dependent on their employer. I'm not super sure what that would look like. Maybe have enough mutual aid services that workers don't need to work or this who own capital and workers having a more equal footing where one doesn't clearly have power over the enough would be good. Tho at the present level tho who run their businesses as dictators of their property are antithetical to my goals.

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