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emma wrote

I'm not anti-vax, but here's a bunch of conspiratorial thinking that's completely identical to shit anti-vaxxers says.

Also, when a vaccine that's voluntary to take becomes available, that's fascistic somehow.

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ruin wrote

Can you please explain what I’ve said that’s conspiratorial? And of course I mean in a sense beyond all of the anti state and anti capitalist rhetoric that folks are ok with.

I would call the notion of a vaccine fast tracked by a government(s) that raddle users regularly refer to as fascist for purposes of “national health” and “herd immunity” rather fascistic. It’s a totalitarian approach to health care as social control. The voluntary part is irrelevant when the supply isn’t available for a mandatory program to begin with.

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emma wrote

Nah, don't feel like refuting crap from ableds today. But I will show you an example of actual vaccine-related fascism.

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_caspar_ OP wrote

though calling it fascistic is a stretch (and I wouldnt), what /u/ruin was saying doesnt seem ableist to me. the same point can be made for industrialization writ large: that the process was ideologically and economically motivated, and forced upon populations through governance. throwing out the descriptor ableist implies and assumes that the covid vaccine makes one able and independent over unable or dependent. sure, many populations outside of europe and n. america are going to be denied what are perceived as the benefits of industrialization, like in palestine's case. but within euro/n.a., NGOs, think tanks, and charities plan ways to bring barbarians (though they wouldnt use that term of course) into the current civilized model. what is helpful about luddism is that it critiques and exposes progress narratives for not being as good for health or making one as able as they claim. in fact it often suppresses and denies ability, making populations dependent upon technologies that often cause the very problems they claim to be solving.

now I might be stretching it myself, and this vaccine might be fine in the long term and would make most folks safer than not. but one factor to consider that hasnt really been talked about here are the rapidly growing variants, how they might be dominant over the next months/year, and how/if the current vaccines would be efficient against them, or if there will be a string of constant yearly vaccines being rolled out with likely new and quickly tested technologies behind them. perhaps I just need to find a science/health forum, but Im not sure where to go that isnt hardline on one side of the fence for the other. maybe folks have links?

if covid was overall as dangerous as say the spanish flu, then it would be an easier decision for me. since I and my family are low risk (though that might change a few months from now) Im leaning toward waiting to see what happens for the time being.

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emma wrote

throwing out the descriptor ableist

I didn't use that descriptor.

implies and assumes that the covid vaccine makes one able and independent over unable or dependent

This was not the implication.

Feel free to ramble on about things you have no basis for understanding, but don't put words in my mouth.

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_caspar_ OP wrote

"don't feel like refuting crap from ableds today."

I misunderstood and didnt mean to put words in your mouth, I thought by saying this you were describing ruin's perspective ableist.

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ruin wrote

Fair enough, I’m not looking to argue.

FWIW I haven’t told anyone not to get vaccinated, nor have I said that the vaccine is harmful.

In the context of your point of view, and the overwhelmingly popular view at that, I agree completely with your sentiments on the link you provided.

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