Submitted by CPUSA in AskRaddle

I've always said Sinophobia is much more similar to anti-Semitism than normal everyday racism. The anti-Semite thinks the Jews are intelligent, highly educated but conniving and manipulative. The Jews' tribalism gives them an advantage over white men and the Jews seek to gain control through intricate plots to accumulate capital. If you talk about bourgeoise, landlords, CEO, then the anti-semite quickly shifts the focus and says Jewish billionaires are responsible for any problems the rich do, like real estate speculation, oursourcing and gentrification. The anti-Semites promote the theory that Jews are not loyal to America, but spies for their own country (Israel) that cannot be trusted because it competes with America. This is the same as Sinophobia.

To my leftist comrades - Let me ask you a very simply question. How is your Chinese language and how much time have you spent living in China (not as a tourist)? Have you ever talked to an ordinary Chinese worker in Chinese who isn't on Western social media speaking English and complaining about his government putting billionaires in prison?

When Western polls show us 86% to 95.5% of Chinese people are satisfied with the performance of their government, do you, like the usual racist imperialist Westerner, think they are stupid and ignorant because they don't have access to "free speech" and "uncensored media" like you?

Let me ask you something else. How much do you know about the Chinese culture and history and how this culture effects the modern Chinese way of life? Do you perhaps suspect the reason Chinese people are protective of their national identity and territorial integrity has something to do with a century of imperialism, colonialism and genocide done to them by the West? By your own government? Do you have more than half a brain to be able to see the reality of the situation? Or are you no better than the halfwit anarkiddie agents who feed you their poop and call it caviar? Do you want to assist these racist anti-communists in helping the US to protect their bourgeoisie interests..? They are paid to do this, but you are not. Will you do this free labor for the American government? Or will you read theory and develop the understanding to support your Chinese comrades in their struggle for communism?

One last question I will ask you is where do you receive your information about China, if not from Western capitalist media, Western academia and Western government press releases? Believe me, comrades, the information you can learn from these things is extremely biased and designed to make the West look great and powerful and the East look uncivilized and in need of conquest.

No communist says China is some kind of a paradise. China has many imperfections, but China isn't bombing the Middle East, not giving weapons to Israel to massacre Palestinians, China isn't putting migrants into concentration camps like America or allowing its police officers to shoot black people for minor crimes. China doesn't install military bases across the world and doesn't fund fascist regimes to destabilize third world countries.

As Westerners who claim to care about workers, I would think you would have enough work to do in your own country which is the imperial invader of the whole world, instead of spending your days lecturing the Chinese people that they are bad because they are trying to achieve communism and create a more just world for all workers. If you are willingly repeating the rabid anti-China propaganda the West pushes on everyone, with the Sinophobia it stokes and the picture it paints of communism as a tyranny, and ignoring the consequences that could have have on the revolution, how can you call yourself a leftist?

Please tell me. To all the non anarchists / radlibs here - how can you call yourself a leftist when you tolerate and even make friends with rightwing (anti-communist) reactionaries that spread Sinophobia everyday to damage the working class in an actually socialist country? Honestly, answer me this? What are you thinking?

This is a site overflowing with reactionary liberals that occasionally deep fake as leftists to keep up an illusion so Raddle doesn't go full mask-off as a venue for fascists who work to destroy communism and turn workers away from real revolution. A worker state.

Whatever words that are spewing out of these fascist's mouths like shit from buttholes will just casually be gobbled up by an unread undialectical person who doesn’t understand what they are eating. Not only is Raddle demonizing and slandering the CPC and Communism as an ideology, not only is Raddle spreading lies about great Marxists of the past such as Chairman Mao, but it is also further exacerbating the West's strategic Sinophobia.

For fuck's sake, this is absolutely infuriating to watch here every single day. Sometimes I feel as though I shouldn’t get angry at the typical radlib who falls for this racist imperialist bullshit, but rather the masked Raddle reactionaries Lastfutures, Celebrityreclusive, Pop, Ziq, Lettuceleafer, ShadesPath, Emma, train, GangSorrison, Willow and Mofongo who have done years of ugly work for the CIA to push these lies across the Internet and make Sinophobia seem normal and even desirable to the undialectical Western left.

Raddle anarchists, continue this Sinophobia all you want, but at the end of the day you're being fucked up your ass by your own government, not the Chinese, not the DPRK, not Vietnam, not Cuba and not by Marxism. Your disgusting imperialist psyop may continue for years but you will only turn other white Western bourgeoisie against communism, not the workers in the third world who are the only people who really matter. There will still be millions of third world communists no matter how much you shout about terrorist rights and fascist Hong Kong traitors who wave American flags and murder their girlfriends.

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emma wrote

Have you ever talked to an ordinary Chinese worker in Chinese who isn't on Western social media speaking English

I made a thread about why you might have made this oddly specific exclusion.

You're part of a cult. I hope you're able to leave sooner rather than later, and not waste your life performing mental gymnastics to justify your bizarre fantasies about authoritarian states.

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CPUSA OP wrote (edited )

Communism is not a cult lmao, we don't even believe in religions. Do you know anything about communists?

authoritarian

Such an insipid, useless term. It has never had a consistent meaning. What matters is who represents the authority. You anarchists believe anything that uses the power of the state to suppress the capitalists is a “hierarchy” and should be rejected. This is complete nonsense. Even your own anarchist philosophers support a transitional state, notably when discussing what your revolution would look like, they will say a transitional period is needed to prepare the working class for communism. Anarchists don’t seem to view mob violence (Antifa) and murdering political opponents with bombs as authoritarian. Yet when state apparatuses do it to the enemies of the people, regardless of class character, you anarchists say it's authoritarian because of the “hierarchy” of the state. Get this putrid notion out of arrogant American skull. Authority is good and needed when it is for the people and bad when it is used against the people. You live in a fantasy land if you think you can take on the USA without the defenses of a strong socialist state.

You non Marxists constantly refuse to organize effectively because hierarchies bad, well I've got news for you friendo, you always base your movements around entirely non-class-based issues (identity politics), you're a bunch of pacifist babies who don't understand the 'smash' part of smashing the bourgeois state and think it just means to write rock songs about peace and love “This guitar kills fascists” jokers. No. Communists kill fascists. Using a state's authority..

Some of the leftists here can learn and be brought over to the Marxist position with a little effort... As a general rule, the lower a leftist's class status, the more likely he is to be convinced to come to communism. If we did a poll of all the users here, you would see that the most ardent anti-communist, pro-imperialism anarchists are all middle class or higher, while those who work with communists are working class and true comrades.

I don't think communists should work with imperialists, but don't take this as a rejection of left unity. I just don't think letting any anarchist libs or revisionists into the party is a very good idea because they'll poison it from within.

True left unity is MLs and Maoists (MLMs) working together towards our common goals. This of course means Maoist comrades need to actually read Marx (not memes with short quotes, actual Marx) so they can wrap their heads around the concept of productive forces, and come to understand that dialectics have a material component. What does this mean? Simple. It means that dialectics themselves shouldn't be treated as though they are concrete rather than abstract. Only then can we build some real power and start to implement the policies needed (via the dictatorship of the proletariat) to create the material conditions for the revolution.

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emma wrote (edited )

didn't read

A cult isn't limited to a specific religious belief, btw. Is it dialectics when you focus on one part of the definition to avoid addressing the other parts?

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CPUSA OP wrote

didn't read

The words of every anarchist across the world when presented with Marxist theory.

Truly pathetic.

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emma wrote

Is it dialectics to have a white saviour complex?

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CPUSA OP wrote

You don't know what the color of my skin is, don't presume to know me.

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emma wrote

Why don't you enlighten me?

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CPUSA OP wrote

My skin color is irrelevant.

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emma wrote (edited )

Of course it is, white person who has no stake in Chinese affairs. My bad.

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catachresis wrote

You're spouting so much bullshit and you're not ever close to actually being right about anything either. Get your head out of your ass. The state doesn't care about you.

anti-communist, pro-imperialism anarchists

This is the funniest thing i've read all day

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UwUltraviolence wrote

As a general rule, the lower a leftist's class status, the more likely he is to be convinced to come to communism.

See, here's your problem! Only people who use he/him pronouns can be communists! Plenty of people here don't use those! Jeez CPUSA, there's your problem! Someone made Communism, but only for the "boys" and other he/him using folks!!!!!

Maybe if ur communism let in other pronouns we would be China supporters 2!

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CPUSA OP wrote

It's easy for Western leftists to conflate their capitalist states with socialist ones, but I assure you they are entirely different beasts. The socialist state only exists to serve the people. The capitalist state only serves capitalism.

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catachresis wrote

Do you live in a socialist state? I'm not conflating them. The state still doesn't care about you. A state might take care of you, or a public servant might care for you. Either way you are still a pawn in the State's game. The answer isn't what you think it is.

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ComradeXi wrote

I do not live in a socialist state currently but I lived in China for two years and 3 months for work. A socialist state (not a social democracy) only exists to serve its people. I saw this with my own eyes while living in China. The state punishes capitalists who break the law.

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catachresis wrote

A socialist state only exists to serve its people.

How do the people choose how they want to get served? Doesn't the government end up choosing for them?

I might be able to agree with you that a socialist state is the best state. I don't want a state and there will always be people in the future that won't want a state.

The state punishes capitalists who break the law.

Is this all you can say about how China treats it's people? They go after capitalists?

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polpotisevil2 wrote

If we did a poll of all the users here, you would see that the most ardent anti-communist, pro-imperialism anarchists are all middle class or higher, while those who work with communists are working class and true comrades.

Interesting... I wonder where all the money you say I have is. I'll bet a million dollars right now I'm lower class and more blue collar than you and likely most of the communists you know (in the USA). That's right, I'm willing to go into an extra $999,615 of debt because I am extremely sure of winning this. Do the math and you figure out how much money is in my back account right now, and that's not counting the debt I'm in already.

The communists I am friends with are white collar workers, making salaries higher than mine with easier and less skilled jobs

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Bezotcovschina wrote

the masked Raddle reactionaries Lastfutures, Celebrityreclusive, Pop, Ziq, Lettuceleafer, ShadesPath, Emma, train, GangSorrison, Willow and Mofongo

I'm envy! Will try harder next time to get into this cool club.

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[deleted] wrote

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ziq wrote

they gave me 2 bricks of cocaine for my troubles

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catachresis wrote

Should I ditch Soros and try and get a gig anarchisting for the CIA? You make it seem like it pays a lot better.

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GlangSnorrisson wrote

They fucked up my handle and celebratedrecluse’s lmao.

Read usernames, tanks.

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subrosa wrote (edited )

kinda embarrassed that I didn't make the list

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train wrote

I'm kinda amazed I made the cut. I'm not even an anarchist. This feels undeserved...

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CPUSA OP wrote

Imagine being so liberal that you call the biggest supporters of American imperialism a cool club. Go contribute to Sinophobia somewhere else, there's thousands of people ready to talk to you about how evil China is over on CIA.gov.

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CPUSA OP wrote

And I said no anarchists.

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ziq wrote (edited )

You really think we're just gonna sit back and let you Xi-ize people on a platform we control?

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CPUSA OP wrote

All I ask is that I'm allowed to have a civil conversation with my comrades without anarchists attacking us.

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mofongo wrote

You don't have comrades here, so fuck off.

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CPUSA OP wrote

You anarchists might have succeeded in silencing all the communists with your attacks but we are still here waiting silently for you to tire of your roleplaying so we can reclaim this site for the left.

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mofongo wrote

You should start by paying for it. /w/donate

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ComradeXi wrote

The CIA has enough money already.

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ziq wrote

We can never have enough money. You don't seem to appreciate how expensive orchestrating foreign coups is.

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emma wrote

Is it dialectical to post fallacy upon fallacy, and complain that the reason you aren't taken seriously around these parts is because of everyone else?

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emma wrote

Is it dialectics when you move the goal posts?

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emma wrote

ackshually, you're the undialectical one

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catachresis wrote

Please put your China boner away, there are kids here. But I digress.

polls show us 86% to 95.5% of Chinese people are satisfied with the performance of their government

I can believe that. That doesn't make what China is doing to the Uighurs or in Hong Kong acceptable.

China isn't putting migrants into concentration camps

They are literally putting Uighurs in concentration camps.

I think your comparison to anti-semitism is really fucked and makes me viscerally uncomfortable.

What do you mean when you ask "real leftists" but not anarchists? Are anarchists not leftists? Are "real leftists" the Bernie bros and the people with the USSR anthem as their ring tone?

I don't know where you're getting the idea that raddle is a psyop. I guess there is no way to tell for sure, but I think the last thing the CIA wants to do is spread anti-government, pro-freedom, individualist ideals.

Can I remind you to think critically and not get caught up in your ideology that Communism is the only way? There are many ways. Authoritarianism is never the way.

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ziq wrote

That doesn't make what China is doing to the Uighurs or in Hong Kong acceptable.

It kinda makes the people / sacred "third world" workers culpable for their state's crimes if they really think the state is doing a bang up job.

Uh oh I just did an undialectical western imperialism again, oops

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GlangSnorrisson wrote

Stop imperialisming you undialectical anarkiddie!

Also you’re both an ineffectual infantile idealist and toppling communist states (lol) all over the world! This is dialectically accurate.

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_caspar_ wrote

"Are anarchists not leftists?"

many, but thankfully not all. : )

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Ennui wrote

Hello Comrade, I agree entirely. These silly anarkiddies have never even picked up the good book Das Kapital, but I’ve read it in 3 languages just to understand it better. The acceleration of capital is absolutely a necessary and dialectical force, though I’d challenge your willingness to follow progressive policies, since these place a hamper on the development of capital. Isn’t it enough, Comrade, that communists take power? After all, we shouldn’t let our revolution be diverted by the needs of workers attempting to assert a petty-bourgeois lifestyle. Every hour of unpaid overtime is a dialectical miracle! The people must merely be educated of how they are bringing about the great dismantling of capital. In this sense, Comrade, I’ve always thought that the Chinese government should model the United States, clearly the master of capital acceleration. It’s primary goal should be the diffusion of perfect communist ideology and support against periodic revolutions in and against capital until capitalism reaches its breaking point.

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Pop wrote

I've always said Sinophobia is much more similar to anti-Semitism than normal everyday racism.

Well, only maybe in the way you are utilising it yeah are amusingly correct. Just like how not all criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic and there are many many ways to criticise the disgusting place without anti-Semitism, not all criticism of China is Sinophobic and there are many many ways to criticise the disgusting place without Sinophobia.

How do you feel about Israel, btw

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keez wrote

How frequent were these posts before chapo.chat?

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ziq wrote (edited )

https://raddle.me/controversial?t=all

Looks like once every 6 months or so.

edit

here are the ones I found that predate the chapo exodus:

/u/Communism_not_Barbarism

/u/assadsquad

/u/comrade_pikachu

/u/dessalinesdefencesquad

/u/anarchist_critic

/u/Mao

/u/exvegan

7 in 3 and a half years.

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Ennui wrote

Fucking wow.

Also, I'm surprised I recognize most of those user's names. I didn't know it has been that long.

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d4rk wrote

I'm a real leftist, what are you?

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chipstix wrote

I agree with the sentiment, I've noticed the low quality of evidence supporting the anti-China rhetoric. Lots of Buzzfeed articles, and they all invariably cite Adrien Zenz, or US govt-funded propaganda projects (usually both!). This seriously weakens the argument, and honestly makes me think ziq is getting a kickback to aggressively push the narrative on his site.

While I can't possibly verify for myself the reality of what is happening in Xinjiang, I am surprised given the nature of the story that so few seem willing or able to explore it, and they all recycle the same information or same eyewitness accounts. I want to know the truth too, I have no ties to China, no interest in taking a pro-China position, but the evidence so far is pisspoor. Google Earth images speculating on the purpose of developments? Google-translate quality 'documents' that have been debunked as likely fake by actual Chinese speakers because of the grammar.

Like I get it, leftists validate their beliefs by criticising 'bad' leftists. Everyone does this at some point, it makes you seem and feel smart. It just doesn't make economic sense for China to genocide an entire region, and the reasoning behind it is absurd "they ran out of space to imprison muslims so they built more prisons". Come on.

At the very least, I would like to see stronger evidence, but at best ziq is choosing to pump quantity over quality, I assume to increase traffic, and at worst there's some other nefarious incentive behind the Buzzfeed shitposting. He has a history of making fake accounts and arguing with himself to make the site appear busier, so perhaps we've just been baited into having this discussion.

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emma wrote

low quality of evidence supporting the anti-China rhetoric

makes me think ziq is getting a kickback to aggressively push the narrative on his site

Clearly, you're super-consistent about the kind of proof that flies by you.

It just doesn't make economic sense for China to genocide an entire region

Well I guess that settles that. It doesn't fit my world view, so it didn't happen!

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broseph wrote

Lots of Buzzfeed articles, and they all invariably cite Adrien Zenz, or US govt-funded propaganda projects (usually both!)

It's absolutely shameless. They're trying so hard to give ammo to America's upcoming invasion of China.

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ziq wrote

The US would completely collapse without China's production. The gears of the USA's entire economy are in China.

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CPUSA OP wrote

If this is deleted by a mod I will repost it on www.chapo.chat where it won't be censored and I will tell everyone that Raddle censors communists. Be very careful mods.

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Pop wrote

you are making a mockery of communists who are worth a damn

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CPUSA OP wrote

Anarchists don't know what constitutes a good communist. It's safe to say any communist who considers you a comrade is a fool and won't be able to serve their party efficiently when the time comes.

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mofongo wrote

Oh no! My reputation! It's not like we're being libeled on this very post!

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