Submitted by zer0crash in AskRaddle (edited )

Y'all always seem to be late to the party. From hastags to sports and music, it's like were stuck in your own lefty ghetto. Like seriously do we even listen to anything that isnt punk/folk punk or old-ass hip hop? Same with aesthetics. We seem to default to 90's punk aesthetic and ethos too much. This is apparent in meetings also. Everything is always barely minimally adequate or just plain shitty, never accommodating to people who arent single, 20 somethin white dudes. That style is tired and boring af. Wheres the cookouts, Djs, dancing etc?

With the Culture War raging all around us, one would think the radicals would be the most avant-garde. The Left has a long history of being avant-garde ie Dada etc but this doesn't seem to be the case anymore.

While I've seen some good advancements, such as vaporwave memes, its seems the left is slow on the come up. Why do you all think this is?

Wheres the fierce, iconoclastic and avant-garde C U L T U R E? Wheres the slick motion graphics, production value and hype? Why cant the left bring in more culture to balance and reinforce the politics within? Just look at the front page. Post after post of Doom and Gloom. Hardly any culture, celebration and fun. We need to balance that shit out to give radicals something to live FOR.

edit: ac

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GrimWillow wrote

I believe culture is in the wake of everyone, whether we like it or not. Maybe I misunderstand what you mean by "culture", but I find that different communities are in different places, and often on Turtle Island Anarchists are marginalized. It's hard enough to walk around in public as a constant 1-on-1 decolonization workshop without worrying about whether I'm being "cultural" or something. I create art and engage with the working class to show them new ways of thinking. I'm not sure what you're demanding from everyone, but I think culture is happening just by seeing the world in an Anarchist lens and then creating and expressing.

If people want to cling to some old styles, why not? They wish to glorify something that is often villified and dismissed. That's a fucking battle to do in this society enough without you hating on them for being that way. I have no interest in trying to compete with the slick form that capitalist propaganda takes, and instead try to glorify anything that has MEANING. Whenever people ask me my favorite "genre", I tell them that my favorite "genre" takes any form, but is meaningful. So I may not prefer country music, but if it's Anarchist country music then it is FUCKING AWESOME and I LOVE IT. I'll show support to them instead of being like "This is fucking unappealing, why are Anarchists so shitty??" just because country isn't my go-to.

But maybe you're speaking of a problem that's not affecting me where I am or something.

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zer0crash OP wrote

Yes we are all products of culture. In this context, by culture I mean Hip Hop Culture, Sports Culture, Black Culture, Chicano Culture, Native Culture, Hmong Culture, Youth Culture, Internet Culture, Streetwear Culture etc. This entails the practices, events, phrases, idioms, food, art, music of these cultures.

I'm specifically referring to how Leftists are largely culturally homogeneous group. Largely, white, male and punk-ish. This homogeneity does not serve the left well. It creates a barrier of entry becuase IT PRESENTS ITSELF AS A "SCENE" NOT A MOVEMENT.

Ever wonder why despite our deep affinity with Black Lives Matter and First Nations leftists have largely made no substantial effort to form alliances? Because leftist culture largely repels People of Color because we don't see anything we identify with within Leftism. Yes, of course people do often find their way to leftism, and there are certainly a lot of Black and Brown voices within the Left but it's still largely stuffy, white book clubs and we certainly aren't doing anything to be more welcoming or accommodating to POC. To put it blunty, White Radicals have no idea how to engage with these groups, because they lack the cultural vocabulary to relate with them at all. And because White Radicals are a homogeneous group, they feel no need or mandate to do anything about it. They think if it works for them it must be working for everyone.

The main takeaway here is that Cultures of Color are largely already radical and fierce by virtue of lived experience. It does not serve anyone well to consider the Left a homogenous movement. White People talk about Diversity a whole lot, but don't know how to do the damn thing.

The time of preaching to the choir is over. We need more folks on ourside. We gotta find ways to breach the glass ceiling so that our message is delivered to the masses via culture, in ways they can relate to, in places they are already. The NFL protests are a great example of BLM breaching the "Mainstream wall".

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An_Old_Big_Tree wrote (edited )

Ever wonder why despite our deep affinity with Black Lives Matter and First Nations leftists have largely made no substantial effort to form alliances?

I chalk this up to racism and false or only partial affinity, for the most part.

Can you give a fairly detailed sense of what a "cultural vocabulary" is? I'm interested in the ways that having one might effectively be the same as cultural appropriation.

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zer0crash OP wrote (edited )

You are partially right about racism. But its an aversive, more subtle form of racism. It is marginalization by thoughtless exclusion. "No one thought to invite this POC organization or activist."

A "cultural vocabulary" is the opposite of appropriation. It is when you know how to speak the cultural language, in an authentic way. You gain a cultural vocabulary by authentically being a part of a culture. Cultural Appropriation is the non-authentic, theft of a culture. If the difference between being invited to the cookout and just crashing the party.

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An_Old_Big_Tree wrote

You don't need to authorise my opinions.

I suspect that there's nothing thoughtless about the exclusion. You think nobody thinks to invite POC? White people don't know how to cross cultural barriers because their whole whiteness is built on not having had to really see other people as fully human. White activists right now are sitting in a circle somewhere saying to each other "Man, we really need to get more PoC into our collective." In my experience, PoC aren't in that collective because the white people's actual interpersonal politics are racist. Because they're "just more interested" in some other shit (I suspect for many on this site, it's tech) than the liberation of all.

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zer0crash OP wrote

You don't need to authorise my opinions.

lol no need for that attitude. I dont have the authority to authorize unless you give it to me anyways.

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An_Old_Big_Tree wrote

You are partially right about racism

Then why are you saying things like this? Maybe standing alone the statement is just a person awkwardly agreeing, but when it's part of a general trend with you of swooping in as the enlightened one here to impart pearls of wisdom on the uncultured, then you are the one with the attitude in the first place.

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An_Old_Big_Tree wrote

I know loads of anarchists who are great at 'culture'. More importantly, how did you put emojis in your title?

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zer0crash OP wrote (edited )

Thats great, but that doesn't really address the milieu at large. As a POC y'all are always kinda disappointing with regards to knowing and practicing culture, and it makes us feel alien and not included.

There is a reason there aren't that many POC coming to meetings. It really helps no one to hand wave the problem away like it don't exist. I'm srsly trying to help y'all be more inclusive, through some self-reflection that you may not have thought to do.

edit: I use emoji on my android keyboard and a firefox extension on desktop

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An_Old_Big_Tree wrote

Are you talking about the US or?

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zer0crash OP wrote

Yeah US. Sorry, forgot to specify.

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Defasher wrote (edited )

Most of us here aren't from the US so it's hard to understand what the leftist scene is like over there. From what you've said, I'm picturing... white people sitting around a table, planning a potluck?

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shanoxilt wrote

Like seriously do y'all even listen to anything that isnt punk/folk punk or old-ass hip hop?

I also listen to a little bit of microtonal/xenharmonic music, but not in public (Haha).

Wheres the cookouts, Djs, dancing etc?

Who has the money for that?

The Left has a long history of being avant-garde ie Dada etc but this doesn't seem to be the case anymore.

It still does, but mostly in literature these days. Almost every "oddball" poet or writer I've come across is some flavor of leftist.

While I've seen some good advancements, such as vaporwave memes, its seems the left is slow on the come up. Why do y'all think this is?

Because all the cool radical culture, like most cultural things in America, was/is made by black people. And since it isn't the 1970s any more, radical music is less mainstream.

Where the fierce, iconoclastic and avant-garde C U L T U R E?

Culture is for rich people and they keep it locked away in the Museum of Modern Art.

Where the slick motion graphics, production value and hype?

As someone else said, anything that hints at rebellion will be appropriated by opportunistic capitalists.

Why cant the left bring in more culture to balance and reinforce the politics within?

I would say that the politics themselves prevent this. Anything too polished will be perceived as bourgeois, selling out, or counter-revolutionary.

Post after post of Doom and Gloom. Hardly any culture, celebration and fun. We need to balance that shit out to give radicals something to live FOR.

Because, as with any community, frivolity will overtake any greater social or political purpose. It happens any time something becomes too popular and when such behavior is not seriously dissuaded.

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zer0crash OP wrote

Who has the money for that?

Not even a money issue cuz I'm certain you could find peeps willing to donate their time and skills. You got money to drink or smoke? You got money to pay a DJ for a night. It seems its ultimately a matter of priorities. Seems leftists are more interested in their own personal lifestyles rather than building something flavorful up.

Culture is for rich people and they keep it locked away in the Museum of Modern Art.

Naw dawg. Culture comes from the bottom up, almost always has. The "Patrons of the Arts" are literally just Culture Vultures. Don't concede that to them! That's an attitude of resignation, they don't deserve that. As you said, "most cultural things in America, was/is made by black people". Obvs not just black people tho.

Because, as with any community, frivolity will overtake any greater social or political purpose.

What does frivolity mean to you? Vibrant culture is frivolous? Perhaps you heard that quote from Emma Goldman about dancing...?

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zorblax wrote

Like seriously do y'all even listen to anything that isnt punk/folk punk or old-ass hip hop?

metal

Wheres the cookouts, Djs, dancing etc?

not in the planning meetings where it doesn't belong, but I agree that this kind of thing needs to be more common.

Why do y'all think this is?

the left is very non-present. We argue about 100-year-old movements and the future 100 years away. A full half of all leftists probably don't care about the present day at all.

Where the slick motion graphics, production value and hype?

You've clearly never seen submedia.tv

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An_Old_Big_Tree wrote (edited )

I think sub.media's often pretty juvenile. I couldn't say whether it was slick since I'm usually watching it pretty pixellated :)

I think we're sorely lacking in kickass media. Which isn't to say that I don't think sub.media is doing a bad job; I'm glad they exist. I do wish they did more to broaden their appeal further beyond teenage white guys as a target demographic.

Crimethinc.'s and some elements of LBC (I'm thinking the baedan series) are probably the best places to go for slick stuff.

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zer0crash OP wrote

Metal is cool but still pretty white af.

the left is very non-present.

for real tho!

You've clearly never seen submedia.tv

I have, they are awesome! But one media entity does not constitute a culture. We need like 10 different groups with the same capacity.

It's alos important to note that media promoting an Anarchist message does not necessarily have to portray itself as explicitly leftist at all. Some under the radar shit is always great.

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Enkara wrote

Sounds like you're hanging with the wrong Anarchists.

Also I encourage people to post more uplifting stuff in /f/RiotsAreFun

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zer0crash OP wrote

Perhaps. But you neglect to understand this is not just my problem, but rather a problem of the left. I have met literally hundreds of POC comrades with the same observations.

So lets talk about how to change that.

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