When tankies say gulags, mass graves, a police state, genocide / forced starvation, etc are needed to 'protect the revolution'

Submitted by Stolenfromreddit in Antifa

If they are so sure what's necessary for communism why did every state they support not wither away into socialism but collapse into disaster capitalism? Did they just not shoot enough people?

"The tradition of all dead generations weighs like a nightmare on the brains of the living." - Karl Marx

All the 20th century communists outside of communist countries that they idolize didn't believe those things really happened in socialist countries. When it became well known that they did, most people abandoned the ideology. 40 years ago these people would be telling you this stuff didn't happen, it's a peculiar and ahistorical type of internet brain damage that people are now willing to fully embrace gulags and mass murder as goods of the system.

The people who know this stuff happened and instead of abandoning their support for totalitarian states, try to justify the actions of Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc are not functionally any different from fascists.

Antifa must stand against all genocide fetishizers or what's the point?

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[deleted] wrote

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Fossidarity wrote (edited )

Instituting state-capitalist systems with the result of mass-murder and repression of minorities sounds pretty equivalent to fascists to me.

I'm not saying it's outright the same or worse than fascism but that doesn't make it good.

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[deleted] wrote (edited )

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Brick wrote (edited )

Trotsky's definition was useless since it depended on the workers overthrowing the 'bureaucrats' in order to install communism.

How is that any different than overthrowing the capitalists?

How are the bureaucrats functionally any different than the capitalists?

Do they not still control the means of production?

Do they not still oppress the workers and wage imperialist wars beyond their borders to enrich themselves?

Do they not still weaponize a brutal police state against the workers and peasants to safeguard their own wealth and privileges?

Do they not still destroy the environment in pursuit of rapid industrialization, growth and PROFIT?

Do they not still control their society through the issuance of MONEY?

So how are the bureaucrats not a new elite class of state-capitalists? Because Trotsky says so?

I'm not amused by this straight up doublespeak.

state capitalism

n.

an economic system that is primarily capitalistic but there is some degree of government ownership of the means of production

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