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8

Fossidarity wrote

I think this video from the Philosophy Tube covers it quite well: https://youtu.be/bgwS_FMZ3nQ

-2

yeahIsupporttrump wrote

im watching it now - its interesting how its taking the tac of the "anon" in which there is no official membership and you know in your heart if you are or if you are not.

im curious to see if he explains what the definition of "fascism" is

-4

yeahIsupporttrump wrote

I hate to be a child of the internet, but do you have anything that isnt an hour long, or perhaps you can point out specific times in this video i should focus on?

7

zombie_berkman wrote

People just show up and do afa. Not all Afa is the same. There is not lexical group. Its like being a sports fan. You dont have an offical Yankees fan club

-6

yeahIsupporttrump wrote

so basically what you are saying is that its basically disorganized rioting with no particular direction?

6

zombie_berkman wrote (edited )

I never said that. Its actually the direct opposite of what you said. But next time troll harder

-2

yeahIsupporttrump wrote

perhaps you can clarify then? Ive already said that im coming from the other side. you cant expect me to just jump in the first 10 minutes.

im noticing downvotes. it means nothing of course but i find it interesting. im trying to be open here. maybe this place is meant to be a bubble?

4

zombie_berkman wrote

No you arent and those were from me. You are intentionally being disingenuous and its painfully obvious with your reply to me and your refusal to watch a video even tho you really want to learn no im super cereal guyz. Im not wasting any more time and will leave with no teeth for fascists.

-2

yeahIsupporttrump wrote

Ive been honest from the start. im a trump supporter, and a conservative after spending years as a leftist. I quit your side long before you went radical, so im trying to understand the direction you are now taking.

downvote me if it makes you feel better. internet points are meaningless when reality calls the shots.

6

not_AFX_lol wrote

When you say 'leftist', do you mean 'liberal'?

We make a firm distinction between the two in these parts.

4

_______deleted__ wrote (edited )

points are only meaningless to us anarchists. you people love your rigid hierarchies.

daddy won't save you, son.

America's debt is past due.

3

not_AFX_lol wrote

This place was generally intended to be for leftists, generally libertarian leftists to discuss things. Almost all of our visitors from the right wing tend to be trolls, hence the suspicion from our community.

0

yeahIsupporttrump wrote

I totally understand and its why I picked the name I did. I want there to be no illusion that im here to try to learn from you and challenge at the same time.

if this place is meant to be a bubble then so be it, but the internet is the one place left for plebs like us to discuss our ideas and try to figure everything out. lets take advantage of it!

5

not_AFX_lol wrote

Antifascist action is decentralized, which isn't quite the same as disorganized. Think of it like the Tea Party or the Occupy movements in the US - there really isn't anyone leading the movement as a whole, but there are smaller, more localized or regional groups acting towards similar goals without a centralized heirarchy to formally collect them into a single body.

2

yeahIsupporttrump wrote

ahh ok. so in a sense its like the militia groups in america? they all kinda want the same thing (whatever that is) but dont communicate with each other at all?

its a good defensive measure ill admit - its very hard for an opposition to deal with a decentralized group

5

not_AFX_lol wrote

I suppose your comparison makes a bit of sense, although comparing antifascists to right-wing militia is a really good way to get both of them pissed.

2

zombie_berkman wrote

The tea party was bankrolled and backed by the koch brothers. Stoo wastibg your time and don't give this troll the time of day

-1

yeahIsupporttrump wrote

ive been as open as I can about who I am and why im here. im sorry that you still think im a troll despite this.

5

_______deleted__ wrote (edited )

If you support a senile billionaire's right to steal your children's future away then you have to be either

  1. a billionaire trolling

  2. stupid

-1

yeahIsupporttrump wrote

the notion that a rich man got that way because he violently stole from others is absurd in a modern western civilization.

no one forced you to buy that Iphone in your pocket. you helped create this problem too, and i admit its a hell of a problem.

2

mofongo wrote

If you wish to understand something, need to put in effort and time in reading The relevant literature instead of demanding a spoon-fed version of things. Follow your white idols and read. I recommend starting with capital: a critique of political economy by Karl Marx.

-7

yeahIsupporttrump wrote

sorry to keep replying, but this is fascinating to watch. i have a core problem however -

hitler was a socialist. it was Mussolini that was a fascist. and fascism has nothing to do with "pro-toxic masculinity" as per 10:27 of the video or any other of those points.

fascism is the political viewpoint that the nation is like that of a body - and the people are individual cells. if a cell is doing good for the body then it is preserved; if not then it is removed. it is a harsh viewpoint and one that requires the marriage of government to the captains of industry in order to accomplish.

it has nothing to do with pro-toxic masculinity, whatever that is. im still watching. sorry if im annoying you with the feedback

8

jadedctrl wrote

hitler was a socialist.

The definition of socialism:

social ownership and democratic control of the means of production

Emphasized the relevant bits. Hitler's brand of fascism literally didn't meet any qualifier there!

social ownership

Capitalists still owned private property, although they were in almost all cases directly controlled or influenced by the state-- but the point is that private property and the social relations that come with it remained in tact. Under socialism, private property and it's related social relations would be abolished. If anything, you could claim that Nazi Germany operated under a form of State Capitalism.

democratic

Nazi Germany + democracy

lol nope

democratic control of the means of production

The means of production/capital (like a factory) were still controlled by the capitalists-- and through them, the state. There was no democracy, no worker control of capital. Again, social relations were the same.

5

_______deleted__ wrote

Hi, I'm a dragonfly.

hitler was a socialist

Hitler wasn't a socialist any more than I'm a dragonfly.

-5

yeahIsupporttrump wrote

if im not mistaken, it was under hitler that the following happened:

  • the creation of the peoples car, or volkswagon, as a cheap means of transport for the german people

  • the creation of the autobahn, a massive social labour project that helped the economy

  • the creation of the very first animal abuse laws. hitler was a massive animal rights advocate.

im NOT trying to defend hitler here, im simply pointing out that hitler was indeed a socialist by actual definition, and re-writing history because it doesnt fit the current worldview you might hold doesnt change that.

8

not_AFX_lol wrote

Eisenhower built the interstate system. Doesn't make him socialist.

0

yeahIsupporttrump wrote

no but it was a socialist act. a common act of government to bring the economy up is to massively spend on infrastructure. its what hitler did too in an effort to bring his own economy up. this does not change the fact that the act was socialist in nature, and that hiter identified himself as a socialst and did other socialist things (he was the first to create anti-animal cruelty laws on the planet which is a good thing) so we have to accept him at his word when he both acts and says he is a socialist.

im sorry, but thats history for you. its a bitch. it doesnt mean you guys are wrong, it means that we need to be accurate about history in order to create proper arguments about the present.

6

Defasher wrote

Hey fashface - I'm not a socialist. But in order for me to not be a socialist, I actually learned what socialism means. You should do that too before you start telling a bunch of socialists what socialism is.

5

not_AFX_lol wrote

I understand what you're saying, but "the government does stuff" just isn't socialism. And calling yourself a socialist doesn't really mean anything. The Democrats aren't in favor of a democracy, they're in favor of a republic. It's branding, nothing more. Calling yourself socialist in an era where capitalism is at its worst failure in modern history is sensible branding, but it doesn't mean you're actually a socialist.

4

not_AFX_lol wrote

Hitler and Mussolini were both authoritarian leaders who sought to create a state that, with corporate assistance, would be capable of dominating the people.

As for the notion of fascism relating to 'toxic masculinity': while traditional fascism (to the best of my knowledge) only goes as far as establishing and enforcing gender roles, most modern fascists are affiliated with alt-right beliefs, MRAs, and other ideologies that are misogynist and 'pro-toxic masculinity'.

-2

yeahIsupporttrump wrote

interesting. im curious, given the definition above, what is it about a person that lets you identify an individual as a fascist in the first place?

noting that it is only in the western world that women not only can vote but have the same opportunities as men (despite certain drawbacks which are too complex for this venue), how is it that this civilization more than others is misogynist?

4

_______deleted__ wrote (edited )

Do exact definitions really matter?

If someone is a) far right authoritarian, b) a proudly bigoted white supremacist and c) a filthy rich corporatist - then who cares what label you put on them? They're straight up dangerous for anyone who isn't also a rich white bigot.

0

yeahIsupporttrump wrote

it does, because logic like yours confuses the situation.

if the label doesnt matter than neither do words in general. I could call you a "quadrofugitarian" whatever that means and it would be an insult.

what is the point of that?

4

_______deleted__ wrote (edited )

trump's biggest fan talking to us about logic. after a year of trump's rule.

4

not_AFX_lol wrote

I don't think it's a matter of "western society is more misogynist than any other", but a recognition that while societies like, for example, Saudi Arabia (to whom the United States sells weapons and from whom oil is purchased) are far harsher on women's rights, that doesn't mean that Western society is perfect.

As for what defines a fascist - in the modern day there is generally a sense of authoritarian politics (ex. militarization of the police, intensification of surveillance programs), intense nationalism and corresponding xenophobia (ex. anti-immigrant, anti-Islam, or anti-Semitic rhetoric or policy), anti-feminist and anti-LGBT views, etc. To some extent fascism can be correlated and overlapped with right-wing authoritarianism.