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Silver_ OP wrote (edited )

I am going on a long journey through the desert, and I need water. When it is stolen, I need to be flown out or rescued in some way, maybe even to a hospital. That would be frightening and a bit of a disappointment, but at least my water went to good use.

Ok, If you die because of him (especially If he didn't even need the water, but he just wanted to sell it), what do you think ? Is it just, Is it fair ?

Why? If I had more food than I needed, why should I want any compensation?

It would be a shame about the door, though, but it is already gone; why should I ask for compensation?

6 things :

What If you need it ?

What is your opinion on armed robbery ?

You are parking your car, you come back, It isn't there anymore, Is it good, Is it legit ?

How is your system really different than today !?

Do you think that It is ok to steal from people who have "met their very basic needs" ? For example, is it ok for me to steal your phone/computer ?

Edit: Oh I forgot, If you're working on something (whether you're building a house) or you're driving or anything else. Can I just come & smash your computer screen, smartphone, vandalize your car, vandalize your house or do anything like this, without compensating you/without consequences ? Is it good behavior ?

However, when you consider the fact that not working for money in a market economy will result in deprivation of food and shelter and maybe even water, it starts to sound much less voluntary.

3 things :

First of all, even If It were true It would still be voluntary

Secondly, You didn't inherit anything from your parents ?

Thirdly, even when starting from scratch with 0 resource you're not forced to do wage labour/jobs (freelancing, helping people in rural areas in exchange of stuff, co-ops...etc are ok alternatives).

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Majrelende wrote

Ok, If you die because of him (especially If he didn't even need the water, but he just wanted to sell it), what do you think? Is it just, Is it fair?

Of course it is not fair, but how can a dead person be compensated? And in a truly voluntaryist society, people would not have to sell. Note “have to”. And how much money would someone even get for selling another person’s water?

What if you need it?

If there is not enough food, it is the flaw of the agricultural system, common knowledge, or the ecosystem in general, not that particular person. Shall I take out my foraging books and write a list of vegan edible wild plants for you?

Do not jump to conclusions and suppose that the evitable is inevitable.

What is your opinion on armed robbery?

Where did you get this from? I never said I thought armed robbery was fine. I am just saying that I think compensation is silly in a genuinely voluntary society.

You are parking your car, you come back, It isn't there anymore, Is it good, Is it legit?

If they are escaping violence or starvation or some similarly horrifying situation, yes. Otherwise, probably not, unless they are going to bring it back. But why do I need compensation?

How is your system really different than today!?

I am genuinely confused by now, but I will try to answer.

To put it simply...

In an anarchist system, all interactions are ideally voluntary in the strictest sense. This means that people are not forced to do anything unless motivated by the direct product of their labour or their own heart— for example, digging up carrots when you are hungry or giving some to a friend.

Under statist capitalism, a tiny minority controls the great majority and manipulates them both by force and by propaganda. People are deprived of the means of production, owned by the bourgeoisie, the ruling class, and to a lesser extent, the petite bourgeoisie, while the working class is forced into servitude in order to gain money and therefore access to what they need to live, all of which comes from the means of production.

Do you think that It is ok to steal from people who have "met their very basic needs" ? For example, is it ok for me to steal your phone/computer?

No. But “not ok” is not the same as “requiring punishment”. It is not okay to stand by and do nothing when people are starving and you can do something about it, but that does not mean they should be punished for it, at least in my opinion. It only makes them want to help even less.

Edit: Oh I forgot, If you're working on something (whether you're building a house) or you're driving or anything else. Can I just come & smash your computer screen, smartphone, vandalize your car, vandalize your house or do anything like this, without compensating you/without consequences ? Is it good behavior ?

consequencespunishment

Why would you do this? If the project hurt you, I would certainly stop or at least find the part that is hurting you and even give you an opportunity to help in minimising harm.

If you were doing it for fun, though, asking for compensation would be a good way to make you feel victimised. Instead, I would find you and tell you why I was doing whatever I was doing so that I could make you feel horrible about what you did, thereby stopping any further harm.

First of all, even If It were true It would still be voluntary

Yes, because everyone owns their own house and infrastructure, obviously.

Consider this statement:

Pay us or we will throw you out of your home and leave you on the streets.

————

Now that you have spent ample time considering, let me tell you that I have gone to numerous cities, and in most of them, I have seen homeless people sleeping on the sidewalks and hungry people begging for money just so they can avoid starvation. I am not saying they are all unemployed, but this is what a lack of money does to people in a market society.

Secondly, You didn't inherit anything from your parents ?

They are not dead yet, but what does this have to do with anything?

Thirdly, even when starting from scratch with 0 resource you're not forced to do wage labour/jobs (freelancing, helping people in rural areas in exchange of stuff, co-ops...etc are ok alternatives).

Never did I say otherwise. However, you must not have read my answer. Forced labour is a prerequisite for labour theft, or wage labour, not the same thing.

(Is it worth continuing this conversation?)

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Silver_ OP wrote

Do not jump to conclusions and suppose that the evitable is inevitable.

If It can be "inevitable" for one person (the thief), It can also be "inevitable" for the victim.

Never said, that It was inevitable, with perfect decision making, though

Where did you get this from? I never said I thought armed robbery was fine. I am just saying that I think compensation is silly in a genuinely voluntary society.

Then, don't compensate. I hope that you will only avoid compensating in ancom communes, though.

If they are escaping violence or starvation or some similarly horrifying situation, yes. Otherwise, probably not, unless they are going to bring it back. But why do I need compensation?

You are not forced to claim, that's right.

But If other people want to claim some compensation, that's their right, too. Do you agree ? Nothing wrong with asking people things, right ?

I am not saying they are all unemployed, but this is what a lack of money does to people in a market society.

Lolz, they can work in rural areas for farmers/other people or make money with the public library computers.

Pay us or we will throw you out of your home and leave you on the streets.

First of all, you don't own the house, If It's true. Secondly, then leave & go elsewhere. Find a cheaper place to live.

They are not dead yet, but what does this have to do with anything?

I mean, they haven't given you something ? Your parents didn't give you land ? Money, nothing ? No resources to be self-sufficient ?

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