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zod wrote

I know I'd kick you out if you pulled that cynical shit.

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[deleted] wrote (edited )

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[deleted] wrote (edited )

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ziq wrote

Collapse will be the most likely catalyst that'll give us the chance to actualize widespread anarchism - but it'll be an uphill battle to prevent fascism from winning that fight... Which would of course lead to yet another collapse, probably even more destructive than the first.

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aiwendil wrote

Absolutely true. I know a lot of people who fantasize about a revolution, which to me seems extremely unrealistic given the adversaries you would have to take on. The super power countries are way too well armed and have standing armies of unquestioning soldiers that wouldn't hesitate to squash you if they ever even had to. More than likely they could wipe out a revolution with drones and never even take a single casualty.

So Anarchism is a waiting game. All governments eventually collapse under their own weight, but especially bureaucratic governments. So all the super powers of today will eventually collapse and then we will have to fight off all the other groups that will be jockeying to replace the previous regime, primary among them will be a number of White Supremacist groups, but also cartels and other gangs that might see an opportunity to gain more influence. That is why I think the real revolution is a slow burn and frustrating battle that primarily involves attempting to educate as many people as possible. That doesn't seem like a battle we are winning either. The future of anarchism is probably just staying out of the crosshairs as best as one can.

Despite all of this realism, I am hopeful because of a number of things that have occurred recently. There are more people than ever going out and black blocing and that is inspiring more people to see alternatives to current paradigms. I am not sure that is the best use of our efforts as all comrades are more valuable outside of a prison cell, but watching people shooting roman candles at Milo and actually get that event in Berkeley canceled was a great moment. Or watching Antifa overrun White Supremacist rallies in Berkeley, etc. I like to think that means our numbers are growing and our education is working. I support a multitude of tactics, but they need to really be strategic and opportunistic. We cannot just blindly throw ourselves at the state and hope there are enough of us to topple a regime. The consequences of this have been dire and continue to get worse.

Strategically I would like to see us be able to focus on pushing our governments further left even if it isn't as left as we want them to be. I think we are going to have to take a lot of concessions in settling for candidates like Bernie Sanders, who is likely the best we can do in the current political climate. We need to recognize that sort of thing as somewhat of a victory in that things get a little better than they were prior. If we can make Bernie the new baseline from which we operate, then over time we can slowly push further. I think too many people, want too much and they want it right now, but it takes work and time and more work. In this way though, we can make living under these despotic countries a little more bearable until they do collapse and that effort is truly something worth doing. Maybe by the time they do collapse there will be something resembling a critical mass of educated anarchists that can mount a successful revolution.

Revolutions aren't nice and tidy and sometimes they take centuries to foment into a realistic opposition. To be an anarchist is to be constantly fighting battles you can never win.

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[deleted] wrote (edited )

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aiwendil wrote

I mean, we are already experiencing environmental collapse. I actually think that environmental collapse is imminent and accelerating, but won't lead to political change so much as extinction. The ruling class are going to cling to the resources that separate them from having to directly experience environmental collapse the way the rest of us will. The fact is that Hurricane Irma is not going to discriminate in it's destruction, but FEMA will in who they help get back on their feet and the wealthy can absorb this disaster... They can evacuate and have somewhere to go when doing so. The poor that are stuck in the affected communities will continue to be hit disproportionately. There isn't really much we can do about that, because full scale political collapse is likely at least centuries away. So in spite of everything, we can really only do one thing: educate.

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theblackcat wrote (edited )

If society isn't completely reorgazined after ecological collapse, then we'll all die out.

If the permanent destruction of large swathes of the planet after just a few decades of neoliberal expansion isn't enough to teach humanity to change its ways, then we don't deserve to survive as a species anyway.

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[deleted] wrote (edited )

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aiwendil wrote (edited )

I think it will bring about species collapse, but it will happen before I see us abandoning capitalism, so any political change will be too late to save us from extinction.

We have already hit run-away conditions for climate change, that means that melting sea ice, will release more and more methane into the atmosphere until we have warmed the climate too much to maintain habitability and it will continue that way no matter what we do at this point. If we stopped producing carbon at this point, climate change will continue largely unhindered.

China has also poisoned so much of it's arable land that they actually cannot feed their own population without imports at this point, so we are starting to see the beginning of food shortages. In California, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas we have already seen the beginning of water shortages. These things have not convinced us to change our ways. I just don't see us living long enough to really benefit from any political change and I think the rich currently control enough resources that we will be capitalist irregardless of what the people want, well into apocalyptic conditions.

The political change I see is that humans will not retain their place as the dominant species on this planet for too much longer. I am personally okay with that. At that point does it really matter if we change our political system? Once we've completely ravaged the environment and trashed the planet. I personally don't think it does.

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TonySoprano wrote

Antifa has really gone mainstream all of a sudden, a few weeks ago liberals had no idea what antifa even meant, but now it's in everyone's consciousness and even the most liberal media outlets are finding they have to defend antifa so they can keep on attacking Fuhrer Trump to keep the ad machine going.

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zod wrote

The fact that the media is willing to endanger holy capitalism in order to side with us anticaps against Trump fanboys is hilarious. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

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theblackcat wrote

The only battle we know we can win is the battle that wages inside us. If we can find peace inside us when everything external to us is crumbling, our lives have been worth living. Just being aware of the cracks in the system and recognising the injustices perpetrated on all life on this planet is an accomplishment in of itself.

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zorblax wrote

People have been awaiting collapse for centuries. It will never come.

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zorblax wrote

Just because revolution is impossible under the current conditions doesn't mean it's pointless to try. Conditions can change practically overnight, and if/when they do it will be important to have the organization and numbers to incite a real revolution(not just swapping out one ruling class for another).

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[deleted] wrote (edited )

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zorblax wrote

Conditions will change overnight in the event of the apocalypse.

Why is it easier to imagine the end of the world than it is to imagine the end of Capitalism?

Certaintly not in the event of another BAD BILL being passed, or any other mundane occurance.

If you look at historical data, it's usually a 'straw that breaks the camel's back' type situation. Which is why it's unpredictable.

It's pointless to hope for revolution, because it won't happen.

You are so knowledgeable about the future!

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Defasher wrote (edited )

They shouldn't be using the word 'apocalypse', but the end of capitalism wouldn't save the planet. We've already passed the point of no return, and switching to communism will just distribute the wealth more evenly, it won't stop humanity from consuming massive resources, especially in the West. Communists expect all the things they have under capitalism to continue once they get their revolution, so ignoring how utterly unlikely it is that billions of people suddenly decide they want to fight a bloody war against the states (that are armed to the teeth) and capital (even more armed) to achieve communism, communism isn't going to halt the collapse of the ecosystem that has already turned much of the world to desert or sea. All the science shows that collapse is inevitable. All history shows us that every empire collapses - this being the most unsustainable and polluting empire of all - the collapse will be utterly gigantic.