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2

ziq wrote

Yes.

1

Freux wrote

Does that make it a hierarchy since you are exercising authority and if so, how is that wrong? Sure you need to speak to your kids and explain stuff but sometimes you need to go away first. I'm just a bit confused on what count and doesn't count as hierarchy.

3

ziq wrote

Yes. Forcing authority on anyone is best avoided. So avoid it. Being embarassed by their tantrum isn't justification to use force.

..Or don't avoid it but be aware that you're manifesting archy; not anarchy.

1

Freux wrote

It's not about being embarassed, sometimes you just need to take them away to talk with them than trying to have a discussion with a kid in a tantrum.

4

ziq wrote

We don't live in a perfect world.

Anarchists living in industrial capitalist nation states are forced to make decisions like that everyday. Every time we go to work or walk down a street we're subjecting ourselves to archy.

In a perfect world we wouldn't need to deny a child anything. In a perfect world a child wouldn't feel the need to manipulate you into buying a lump of plastic.

We don't live in a perfect world.

Just strive to do your best to avoid creating more archy.

3

noordinaryspider wrote

Exactly.

noordinaryspider wrote at August 18, 2018 at 7:13 PM

I tried to do this:

[quote]One more thing I was thinking about, since it's first of all about parenting. If your kid has a tantrum, for wanting a toy or whatever, wouldn't that be enforcing an authority over them to get them out of the situation to be able to go home?[quote]

with my 29 year old but she just wasn't making any sense. She kept wanting me to apologize for things that weren't reasonable and saying that I ruined her life when we had to move "for Colfax reasons".

I would love to take her away into the woods and find out what the bleep she's on and what monster is doing what to my baby, but she's a grown woman and kidnapping is a felony, capiche?

So I can hate my kid or buy a shrink. I bought a shrink. I'm not going to tell you her name but I am going to tell my kid's shrink my shrink's name so they can talk shrink stuff.

To make a short story long, I hired a licensed psychologist for myself for the EXACT SAME REASON you bought your kid that candy bar in the checkout line.

1

Freux wrote

This is going back to the "it's not justified but you do what you can in the circumstance". I read it all as you were saying "if you do this, then you aren't agreeing with anarchism". But I should have read it as "doing this is not an anarchist praxis".

1

ziq wrote

I still see no reason you need to force the kid to come with you. Just say you're not buying it, walk away and they'll follow. If they cry, they cry. No law against crying.

2

ergdj5 wrote

If they don't follow, I get arrested. That's the issue. I do have to force them to come with me.

3

ziq wrote

I'm sure it wouldn't be the first time the state forced you to obey its commands that day.

1

ergdj5 wrote

It isn't, but I'd rather not go to jail and leave the kid in the hands of the state.

1

noordinaryspider wrote (edited )

I'm sorry, but there is in the United States. Child Protective Services is beyond the scope of Raddle and completely inappropriate to discuss here in the context of a metaphor but I need to correct some potentially life-destroying misinformation.

Anyone can report a United Statesian parent for child abuse/neglect by calling an anonymous tip line and can and is done for the same reasons all the downvotes and "ziq iz a bad despot" posts keep appearing here but with afk consequences that can cost more than money.

2

ziq wrote (edited )

I wasn't trying to suggest leaving the building without the child. In my experience (with nephews tho and not living in a police state like the US) if you say you're leaving, they follow. But this post was never meant to be parenting advice and I kinda wish I had never got into this pointless rhetorical question comment chain.

All I wanted to do was talk about the definition of anarchy. In practice, living anarchy isn't always doable because of personal danger. Anarchy is the ideal but compromises always happen when we try to survive in a screwed up world.

2

noordinaryspider wrote

Exactly. Just like parenting. And it's a sucky metaphor because it's painful for both of us right now but also a very apt one and probably healthy for the community for us to just deal and publicly pm, but I'm just not sure my language skills are up for it.

There's a lot more to anarchist parenting than cute little black onesies and finding a lonely little old lady to work 24/7/365 for free.

Sorry. My baby wants a candy bar too. My baby's candy bar costs 140GBP an hour, my self respect, and hopefully not my own mind and #OccupyBaby's teens or (perhaps, since some foster homes are good and #OccupyBaby looks like Antwon Rose with waist length cornrows) his life.

The more experienced anarchist on Raddle who is also a less experienced parent has taught me to just shrug, remind you never to get between a mother bear and her cubs, and I'll match your "vagina is not a clown car" by raising you a "that may be true, but your clown car is not a vagina either so I'm not gonna hump it."

1

Freux wrote

But again this is if they follow, there is no point in bringing them out if they simply follow you. It's good to keep in mind the walking off before forcing them out.