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4

Dumai wrote

kind of weird for white dude who claims to practice hoodoo to swing the word "religious" around as an insult 🤔

2

TheLegendaryBirdMonster wrote (edited )

spirituality != religion

thought I agree with you bones is religious af lol

3

Dumai wrote (edited )

dunno

see if you'd ask bones he'd say hoodoo is a spiritual practice rather than a religion

but while i can definitely see that the entire concept of "religion" is tricky to universalise as it's a little christian-centric (to the say the least) i think cleanly demarcating between "spirituality" and "religion" is even more incoherent, equally reliant on categories of christian origin, and in fact reminds me of new age attempts to secularise (read: westernise) non-western belief systems and practices. think "buddhism isn't a religion, it's a philosophy!"

if i were to answer the question "what do i, a christian, have in common with somebody who practices hoodoo?" i'd say the answer, simplifying to the extreme, is "we both belong to mythological traditions bound up with social formation, identity, and historical community". in english, i'd think the term "religious" has more explanatory power there over "spiritual", accounting for the fact that the utility of either term has to be quite limited when speaking of a folk tradition with deep west african roots

so i think for a white dude to throw himself into hoodoo, call it a "practice", and contrast it with "religious" traditions (where "religious", for him here, means "bourgeois, obfuscatory, utopian, idealistic, politically worthless") is horridly sloppy at best and stems from an oddly reified notion of what "religion" even is

5

amongstclouds wrote

Also the example of Buddhism (which the in itself is a horrible representation) is a weak point. Siddartha openly encouraged a form of 'diversity of tactics,' in opening people to the other shore. If it works, it works.

However, I also really hate the corporate mindfulness movement that truly does make poor use of this powerful tool.

5

Dumai wrote (edited )

sure, but there is quite a difference between a pluralistic dharmic tradition and secularism as it's been historically constructed in the west. though it's pretty hard to get people to agree that it's constructed at all

1

amongstclouds wrote

Well he didn't throw himself into it. Where he lives it's pretty common and learned from other lifelong practitioners.

2

Dumai wrote

didn't know that about him i guess!

3

amongstclouds wrote

Yeah, first thing you should know is Dr. Bones is a character. You could almost imagine he has used his practice to create this alter ego to fight for that which he see's as vital to others lives. He also knows others freedom is tied with his.

He's pretty much the same 'out of character,' but that's because his character is HIM, but with a little extra sprinkled over top.

1

tamarack wrote

Hoodoo is a technique, not a religion. It is a tool for manipulating consciousness in accordance with will.

As for Bones being white, that's for the loa to judge, not us. If the loa accept him and want to work with him, does skin color really matter? The loa refer to their medium as a "horse" -- and there can be all different color horses. Black ones, white ones, spotted ones, striped ones. We're all pink and red on the insides.

1

Dumai wrote

Hoodoo is a technique, not a religion. It is a tool for manipulating consciousness in accordance with will.

this is exactly what i mean

We're all pink and red on the insides.

let me guess; you "don't see race #colorblind"

1

tamarack wrote

I do see race. I see the human race.

"Race" in this context is roughly equivalent to "biological species". Humans are one species of intelligent being. There are other intelligent races as well, and some are much older than ours. Some are much, much more powerful.

The loa are another race than us, and they have a different kind of intelligence.

1

amongstclouds wrote

Yeah, I know him personally and I'm not sure what your point is.

4

Dumai wrote (edited )

well i just gotta question what he means by "religion" contra "spirituality" and the wider political implications of this, which i appreciate might not be the focus of this article but i've seen people throw this language around really lazily in occultic discourse and it drives me up the fuckin wall

not that i'm calling bones a racist or anything, i mean what i said: it's weird and i don't think people who use this language in this way have fully unpacked it

2

Green_Mountain_Makhno wrote

What does everyone think the Underground Railroad is today? Bones talks about, and I agree, that they can serve as an amazing example of decentralized network that fought with great success against a massively violent and oppressive system. So what might that look like today? Building up places of safety? Rescuing people from capitalism? Rescuing people from ICE and/or prison?

I am not saying we have to be capable of any of this today (we frankly aren't), but if we start to build the foundation today, we will be capable of it in the future. So what should we be building to?

1

amongstclouds wrote

I think that is a question that truly only YOU can decide.

There is a thin border between 'unity' and 'solidarity'. The former being a decree from above as to what we should all be concerned about. This is dangerous as people aren't ignorant to manipulation. They will piggy back off of others labor in order to achieve the power they secretly thirst for.

Solidarity, on the other hand is a conscious choice made by individuals to work with others who share similar goals... just without the shame, exploitation, and abuses of power. The first step is creating networks of emotional and compassionate support -- or simply making friends with those around you. All of our lives, for better or worse are tied together in a constantly shifting social reality and we have to learn to trust one another.

Without that trust nothing can stand so I guess it's time to start really getting to know people and make as many connections as possible. When, or if collapse happens all we'll have is ourselves and those we were able to make connections with prior -- after the collapse things will become much, MUCH harder.

1

succtales_backup wrote (edited )

I see his point, because I for one, am on par with a Leftcom in regards to practice. (Then again, the FAI would technically be Leftcoms, therefore, the comparison makhno sense.)