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A Short Analysis of Raddle from a European Communist

Submitted by youblockyoulose in Anarchism

Hello,

Before I start, I would like to mention that one of the points of this post is that if you block it, you lose. I have it copied and can create an infinite number of accounts, which would just give you more work. Please, just leave it on this website for all to see. I'm not losing anything as the poster from readers putting it down, but it's simply a waste of time, and a proof that my argument is correct, if it is.

Let us have a civilized discussion, where you can like or dislike this post, and comment your opinion, without reporting it. Because I'll just put it up again and again and again and again until we all get the message I'm trying to pass here.

I have been on Raddle for some time now, since I was directed here from r/Communism, and have grown to hate this community as a whole.

Yes, it has its strong points, and of course on an ideological perspective I agree with many of the points expressed on Raddle by its users.

However, the community as a whole is just simply toxic. Absolutely toxic. I have been banned already from countless accounts for little to no reason, because I was thought of as being a fascist "spy", or because I stated that all religions are not equal. These are not opinions, these are facts: if you keep on blocking facts and only listen to opinions, what is the point of the TRUTH?

Yeah, that was me. I'm the one who said Islam is worse than any other major religion (not counting Mormons or the Amish). But it's TRUE! YOU CANNOT HIDE FROM THE FACTS! We leftists are hyper-for women's rights, and have always been: it was Labour in the UK, and the Parti Socialiste in France, the PSOE in Spain and the Democrats in the USA which gave women the right to vote.

So why, when faced with the huge oppression women in countries like Iran, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia or the UAE, don't Raddlers have the BALLS to express the fact that it is due to the religion these countries have in common that women are treated in such a backwards way there.

This form of American Liberalism is absolutely abhorrent. I am European. We already have many of the things leftists fight for in the USA, and it's great: a good Social Safety Net, universal healthcare, government-organised retirement...

So we Europeans realize that those are the fights worth fighting for in the USA. Not blocking my account because I said "balls" and someone feels their gender was assumed or some other bullshit like that.

American Liberals are soft. Just soft. I hate to criticize you like this on a website dedicated to following this movement, but it is just horrible. Not all left-wing Americans are weak and distasteful: look at Bill Maher, Bernie Sanders or Stephen Colbert. They stand by their opinions, they debate them in an articulate and objective way, without introducing emotions to the mix.

Although, it's important to say, you can do what you want: it's not my problem directly if leftism fails in America because a few people chose to make it a fight about gender identity, dysphoria, non-binary-ism or some other thing that offends them.

But when I get routinely blocked because I'm not the same kind of leftist as you folk, there's a problem. I've been to my fair share of protests, of manifestations, of strikes, of meetups and of party meetings. I have experience in this realm, and it wouldn't be the first time I spent time in jail for fights purely based on ideology.

And that's fine: these are my choices, and I live and abide by them.

But when some faux-leftist American comes to me and tells me my account has been blocked because he felt offended, or his feelings were hurt, or because I'm a FASCIST SPY, that's what makes me fucking mad.

My great-uncle was shot in front of his kids by fascists. My great grandfather led a corps to fight Fascists in the Spanish Civil War, and was killed on the front lines.

Do I feel offended? Of course I do. But I have reason to be. This is not some subjective fight about whether assuming someone's gender is insulting or not. This is my actual life. So when you block me, you're just taking a step backwards, and a big one, against your own movement.

The leftist movement was invented in Europe. It was popularized in Europe, and still is today. The US' Democrats are just a weak, center-right imitation of Europe's Labour Parties, which stood with workers, suffragettes and trade unionists from the very beginning.

My point is not that Americans should change their views. My point is, for the party which claims itself to be the "accepting" one, I have had much more ease of communication and freedom of speech, with no-one stopping me, in right-wing forums. And, believe me, I support the actions of US Antifa for the most part. I have a Riseup account, and I know many Antifa members in the USA whose actions I fully back: making it harder for fascist idiots to pass on their moronic arguments is exactly what the US needs at the moment.

But don't do the same for a leftist like you. Just because you disagree with him.

If you haven't blocked this post yet, I'd love to hear your opinion on this issue. Why do you think these are the ways things are done here? Why is the US different from other countries in terms of leftist movements? Can we rationally put an end to the irrational actions of a small part of leftists who make the entire movement lose face?

PS: No, I'm not an Anarchist, but I wanted to put it on the page with the most people on it, as to maximize exposure.

Comments

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15

leftous wrote

If you want to participate in our community, you have to follow the ToS. According to the ToS, creating multiple accounts to evade bans or avoid restrictions is prohibited.

Now on to your post, I am not sure why you're so centered on criticizing Americans and Liberalism as if we aren't highly critical of both the US and liberals. Also, to my understanding, the majority of Raddlers are not American (I can only think of one off the top of my head).

So why, when faced with the huge oppression women in countries like Iran, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia or the UAE, don't Raddlers have the BALLS to express the fact that it is due to the religion these countries have in common that women are treated in such a backwards way there.

You're removing the entire context and imperialist history of the middle east, and showing a poor understanding of what religion actually functions as. This shows you're either poorly studied on the topic, or that your view is informed by a nationalist/racist worldview (which isn't surprising if you frequent right-wing forums, as you claim).

Why do you think these are the ways things are done here?

This is a forum run on anarchist principles. That is we try to remove bigotry and oppressiveness in all its forms - even in our language. The question is why should we subject ourselves to whatever is personally convenient for you?

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[deleted] wrote

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ziq wrote (edited )

Anarchist 'principles' (lol) strongly emphasize personal responsibility, freedom of association and direct action. Removing a racist from our space is 100% anarchist. It's not a hierarchy to stand up for oppressed peoples when a white European man is inciting hatred against them.

Fighting against oppression and exploitation is anarchism. This is our space and if you don't respect our (very reasonable) rules then we can tell you to leave.

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[deleted] wrote

2

GrimWillow wrote

It's really obnoxious when you claim so much to understand Anarchism and then go and spout out a bunch of garbage that instantly reveals your ignorance. I would be more inclined to engage in discourse with you, if you weren't acting like you're the ultimate judge of Anarchism while having a toddler's understanding of the subject. You're completely missing any notions of context, intersectional solidarity, and safe spaces and insisting that they have no value.

Why waste our time with this nonsense?

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dele_ted wrote

You're exactly right, not sure why people are downvoting... Raddle does have a hierarchy. Right now, this hierarchy is actually used for good (such as getting rid of bigotry), and most decisions are taken in concensus or by voting, but that doesn't change the fact that hierarchy is a pretty important part of Raddle right now.

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leftous wrote (edited )

Would you allow a neonazi to sit in on your meetings?

It's not like the admins or mods here ban on a whim. We're just custodians acting according to the ToS which can be changed at the community's will via /f/meta. As with any online platform, there needs to be someone to fulfill this custodial role. Feel free to challenge anything in the ToS, or anyone who is a mod, and propose it in meta.

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NeoliberalismKills wrote

You don't know the difference between a Liberal and a leftist but you condescend to us?

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ziq wrote (edited )

This. Referring to us and themself as "liberal leftists", the proud islamophobia, and worst of all - doing it all while posing as an anarchist (their username was communist_anarchist).

And now proudly ban evading and forcing themselves on us to throw trans people under the bus while talking about how the white european is sacred and being discriminated against by raddle?

And calling me an American lmao.

What a clown.

6

kittybecca wrote

I've seen fascists pose as "European leftists" a lot. Apparently they've gotten it into their heads that the American left is some unique group that doesn't communicate with the left in other countries.

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ziq wrote

Yeah a lot of them even buy into the whole 'national socialist' line, showing just how poor an understanding they have of their own politics.

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kittybecca wrote

It's also often just similar to their documented campaigns to pose as black people or other oppressed minorities and advocate reactionary tendencies. The idea is that "the left" doesn't understand what reality is like for these minorities and that if it did, "the left" would also be in favor of reactionary ideas. It has little to do with the left, of course, and everything to do with what reactionaries think about the left, which is why such campaigns are never very effective at doing anything other than circlejerking with other reactionaries.

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RedEmmaSpeaks wrote

I could only make it a few lines in. The whiny, self-martyrdom was just too much to take. Probably feels that when it comes to suffering for the sins of humanity, he's got Jesus beat. With all this whinging, I wonder if we ought to stick him in a cave with a boulder to block the entrance, see if he rises in three days.

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selver wrote

Jeeesus christ this post is brutal. I could write paragraphs responding to every other sentence here, no point even starting. Agree with /u/untitled, don't group me with leftists. There is no "movement" that includes me and you.

If you don't want your posts blocked, learn to ask your questions in a less reactionary way. I was open to engaging with that Islam post, but the way you wrote it made it pretty obvious it was going to get banned. I immediately assumed you were a right-winger.

10

ziq wrote

Banned for ban evasion among other things. If you're looking for some 'civilized europeans', try voat.

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jadedctrl wrote (edited )

I'm the one who said Islam is worse than any other major religion (not counting Mormons or the Amish).

The people who claim to be adhering to Islam do some of the worst things you can find justified by religion today-- no-one's disputing that. Islam just isn't worse than other majour religions because of that. Any other majour religion can be used to justify abhorrent actions, too. Hell, just look at Christianity's past.

it is due to the religion these countries have in common that women are treated in such a backwards way there.

There are egalitarian states with predominately Muslim populations, and there have been in the past-- which shows that misogyny and horrific oppression of women isn't inherent in Islam or necessary in it's practitioners, which is the point you're missing.

But it's TRUE! YOU CANNOT HIDE FROM THE FACTS!

You sound like some conspiracy theorist jajaja

This form of American Liberalism is absolutely abhorrent.

Y'know, you say "American" and "Liberal" a lot-- though basically none of us are liberals, and this isn't an "American" site. I don't know why you'd assume the site's "American," or representative of US liberalism.

Raddle users are soft.

If by "soft" you mean "people who care genuinely about progress and the well-being of other people," OK. At least, that's the vibe I get from people on this site.

it's not my problem directly if leftism [fails] because a few people chose to make it a fight about gender identity, dysphoria, non-binary-ism or some other thing that offends them.

"It's not my problem if leftism fails because you people decide to make it about race."

"it's not my problem if leftism fails because you people decide to make it about sexuality."

Just as those two statements reveal ignorance and callousness over the problems facing people of colour and queer people (and how they intersect with basically everything leftists fight for), your statement reveals ignorance and callousness over the problems facing trans and non-binary people.

(Though I bet you're the kind of person to say the other two lines, also!)

Progress and leftism are intertwined-- we can't reach for economic justice while ignoring social injustices. And what's the point of establishing a free society if it isn't free for everyone, anyway?

That also kind of shows why you were banned-- it was probably excessive, preachy liberalism or queerphobia/transphobia.

EDIT: As a trans person, I've found this to be the only site that's genuinely welcoming and feels like a true safe space, and I really appreciate that about Raddle and all the people that use it. Not really related to this rant exactly, but I did want to say it.

But when some faux-leftist [Raddler] comes to me and tells me my account has been blocked because he felt offended, or his feelings were hurt, or because I'm a FASCIST SPY

OK, so people block you when you're being a dick and don't even try to understand their perspective. That sounds about right.

And your account being blocked because you're a "spy"-- well, you do kind of tick some of the boxes. You know, your preachy & manic tone, queerphobia, liberalism, etc. Believe it or not, we have had quite a few fascist trolls/attempted "infiltrators" from Voat etc. over the months. So even just a few of those boxes (which, tbh, are very easy to keep unticked!) can raise suspicion.

So when you block me, you're just taking a step backwards, and a big one, against your own movement.

Nah, we'll be fine without you. :)

But don't do the same for a leftist like you. Just because you disagree with him.

TBH it sounds like you broke some of the terms of service. People don't just get banned from this site (you say "blocked", but in the way you use it, I think you mean to say "banned?") for disagreeing with people-- they get banned for tangibly breaking the ToS. Which you probably did, even just judging by your rant.

No, I'm not an Anarchist

No shit

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[deleted] wrote

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youblockyoulose wrote

Of course I agree that all people should be treated equally, and I don't judge you based on your sexual or gender orientation. That's not what I meant to say at all. But the issue is that we're being caught up in too many discussions on gender issues, in my opinion, and not focusing enough on the rise of the alt-right, racism etc...

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GaldraChevaliere wrote (edited )

How far does that equality extend for you? As far as needed to have extra bodies in a movement, or to serve your economic and political goals? What then? We're still as screwed under an authsoc governance as we are under the status quo.

If you really agree that all people should be treated equally, which is to say fairly, stop saying you do not judge and that you are somehow blind to skin, to roots, to sexuality and gender as if you were somehow raised outside the system and not another subject to it. Everyone does, it is systemic in nature and plugging your ears and crying "You're being divisive!" does nothing but alienate the very people who need this the most.

Class and identity intersect at all levels, they are inextricable from one another. You may feel that everyone is caught up in some 'petty' dispute over pronouns or bathrooms or whatever little simplification of a host of issues you will never experience firsthand is most convenient for you. But for the majority of people living through those same conditions you ignore, they are more often matters of life or death, every bit as much as the color of your skin is. Fighting racism, queerphobia and capitalism are not mutually exclusive goals to split our energy between. They are intertwined and simultaneous aspects of the same battle.

E: Oh, hi, as an addendum. Fuck yourself. To even have the gall to think that your comparatively pampered ass has more of a stake in this than any trans femme who's lived long enough to see her transition through and wasn't just beaten to death or frozen on the streets. You want fighting for a better future? I've fought nearly every day of my life just to have a future the next morning.

7

____deleted____ wrote

Islam is not entirely incompatible; if you glance at Rojava, it is plenty progressive whilst being majority islamic. India is far outside of Europe and has actual communist-controlled areas.

The U.S. suffered a serious red scare without any communist rule to balance it. Most nations that did either came under Soviet influence or remained staunchly anti-left. The culture has not recovered since.

and

I wanted to put it on the page with the most people on it

dont do that we have more than one forum for a reason

-6

youblockyoulose wrote

Yeah, you're probably right about the forum thing.

I know Islam isn't entirely bad: in fact my best friend is a Muslim, although he doesn't practice his religion much.

What I mean is that US leftists take the side of Islam while ignoring its stances on women's rights or the death sentence, for example.

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[deleted] wrote

3

leftous wrote (edited )

To me, "leftist" just always felt like a more succinct way of saying "anti-capitalist" and "workers own the full value of their labour". But this cringe-filled post has certainly given me second thoughts.

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youblockyoulose wrote

No, you're right: Anarchists aren't leftists per se. But they are in favour of social progression, which socialists also are. That is why they are commonly associated together.

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NeoliberalismKills wrote

"So why, when faced with the huge oppression women in countries like Iran, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia or the UAE, don't Raddlers have the BALLS to express the fact that it is due to the religion these countries have in common that women are treated in such a backwards way there."

Know what else they have in common? American imperialism undermining internal politics or American money and weapons helping to prop up authoritarian regimes.

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youblockyoulose wrote

Hey, don't get me wrong, I detest US Imperialism too. And every single war waged by the US since after WWII has been for all the wrong reasons.

But Islam precedes the USA by a lot. And we forget this.

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therealmidnite wrote

So if I "block it" (whatever "it" is), I lose? And only after you've dictated these goalposts, can we have a "civilized discussion"?

Piss off. That's not my opinion, by the way. That's me telling you what you can go and do with yourself.

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drh1138 wrote

LOL; you are unironically what the edgelords and sharpies on reddit claimed I was. GTFO.