Insurrection vs. Organization genderloos ( pretty good)Comments
Lettuce OP wrote
This is very true. But I do think organizationalists and insurrectionists still have many desirable things for those not particularly interested in saving the world or whatever. Like I can appreciate even tankies sometimes. It's genuinely funny when their are tankies marching on the road chanting about the revolution and car drivers are just pissed off that they have to sit and wait.
And a lot of organization stuff I enjoy if it's at a distance but acknowledge that I would not be able to stand being around most anarchists. It's nice for there to be more graffiti, it's nice when I'm in town and I can show up say hey and get some free food then peace out, it's neat that otgazationalists sometimes make events and stuff that are counter to the states desire of making the world a big shopping mall. I think it's neat and makes the world more chaotic and interesting. I sure as hell won't be attending any meetings but I have no I'll will or desire to destroy other anarchists. But I do have a big criticism of gelderloos.
I think there are some pretty serious major differences that I can't possibly look past that honestly really sours my opinion of the whole anarchist scene entirely that just makes me mad and want to cry if I think about going to a book fair or any event really.
I think the standard horrible opinion on animal liberation most anarchists have is not something I ever will be able to emotionally tolerate to enjoy being around other anarchists. When the debate is if people I loved are even people or if it's good that authority killed them. This isn't a conversatin of like minded people with similar goals. It more feels like being mocked by anarchists cuz they have more power and gloating in their position of power.
It's a deep personal slight that I never will emotionally be okay with. And I'm sure there are other major rifts like this that make some big tent thing okay. So for me I keep in mind and try to appreciate anarchists from afar but it's basically impossible to not understand that the anarchist scene is not for me. And if I want anything enjoyable I have to craft it myself.
So yeah I like the ideas gelderloos puts out and I think it's great to keep in mind and challenge the scisms. But I think they exist for great reasons and I'm not going to be buddy buddy with most anarchists anytime soon. Tho I appreciate that they exist.
Lettuce OP wrote
Damn no bites? Probably is too long to read. Guess I'll have to write something
subrosa wrote
heh @ genderloos
Lettuce OP wrote
I actually genuinely tried to spell his name right. I actually legit forgot there was a second l. In my head I allways pronounce is gender loss. So I was like oh no I forgot a letter it's actually genderloos. Lmao
subrosa wrote
"Gelderloos" would translate to something like "without funds" or "moneyless", to me it always had a commie/prole ring to it. Genderloos would then be something like agender, gender nihilist.
Lettuce OP wrote
Ah when I think genderloos I think of male restroom, female restroom and gender restroom
yaspora wrote
I think this is a good enough starting point but it would be better to hear at more length from anarchists who've actually taken part in insurrections or events approaching them about their experiences related to this. Some recent contexts I'd be interested in that I know anarchists have participated in:
- Sudan: ongoing revolutionary process since 2019.
- France: anti-police uprisings after Nahel was killed this year.
- Palestine: more like this.
- Chile: 2019/2020 uprising.
- Wallmapu: would really like to hear from Mapuche anarchists.
- Greece: basically the movement since the mid-2000s. To clarify, there's plenty of stuff translated from Greek anarchists, but not much about how they approach this debate, or how it's changed since Gelderloos wrote this. Or at least I don't know where to find it.
- Italy: I think there's been a serious attempt to address these questions from the insurrectionary side in the last decade or so, & I don't feel like enough attention is being paid to Italian anarchists' assessments of the experience beyond updates about the intense repression.
subrosa wrote (edited )
A problem I have with this text is that Peter Genderloos necessarily speaks of the categories insurrectionist and organizationalist as conclusions (and of attitudes associated with those conclusions). It's an approach that denies both 'camps' their diversity in rationales, motives, and expressions — just so we can have a conflict that happens on something like common ground. I think CrimethInc's critique/analysis has aged better, though I think we should note it came 3 years later which is plenty time for a young tendency. (And comparison may not make much sense anyway.)
Have not read the whole thing, that's all I got.