Submitted by ziq in Anarchism

The concept of meritocracy is deeply ableist because it assumes everyone can perform the same tasks at the same speed using the same methods. It ends up rewarding mediocrity because the people who are able to function best under the oppressive, neurotypical system are funneled straight to the top of it, where they're able to further entrench the system that works so well for them.

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marigold wrote

All -ocracies are authoritarian. kratos means "rule".

All ordered systems are authoritarian.

Only chaos is anarchic.

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kore wrote

"All ordered systems"

I think depending on how one considers "order" then this argument breaks down for me.

For example, cells are an ordered system in the sense that they have a regular structure. But at the root of is the indeterminacy of the quantum.

Sorry I'm posting a lot on your comment you just baited me hard with your etymology haha

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kore wrote

it's worth of course comparing the fact that "kratos" is "rule" in the sense of "power" but "arche" is a "rule" in the more general sense of "principle" or even "beginning".

The distinction itself between "order" and "chaos" is a principle, thus by claiming "chaos" in opposition to order as the "only" anarchic thing I think one misses the point. Of course, trying to describe it in language at all misses the point. Nonetheless if by "chaos" it is meant that ineffable source whence and whither all things then I heartily agree and indeed by seeking this is the only way I have been able to find peace recently.

Matthew 6:33 "Seek ye first the kingdom of God"

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roanoke9 wrote

If order and chaos approached with language is missing the point, then a quote referencing god does that as least as much. It approaches the point where my response to anything anyone every says tends more and more towards - I heartily agree/diasagree with this, we understand/misunderstand each other, I wish you well/ill in your life/unlife. What do?

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kore wrote

Daoism describes it particularly well I think, "The way that can be told is not the eternal name, the name that can be named is not the eternal name"

Essentially the argument that you will never be able to identify the source of your existence because you come from it, it's all you are. And so it quickly becomes nothing, the only thing, and everything all at once.

When I hear "seek ye first the kingdom of God", I am understanding the "kingdom of God" as the same as the eternal name, as (to use philosophical term) the universal will.

that quote "Seek ye first" comes in the context of people asking "how will we eat, how will we get food" etc. the end of Mt. 6:33 says "and all these things will be added unto you." It's suggesting that you try to understand that we're all one, and let this guide your life.

What do?

"Seek ye first"... jk.

Honestly all the Gospels' talk of loving your enemy, non-violent resistance (i just thought: Jesus willingly got crucified for telling people to love and help each other, talk about resistance) and helping the needy and sick has been very helpful for me. For example, even though cars stress me out and I'm prone to stewing about urbanism I still try to actively hope that everyone gets where they're going safely. And if someone on the street asks me for money, I give it to them if I have some.

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roanoke9 wrote (edited )

Alternatively, I have lines that cannot be crossed and just as I would have someone unalive me were I to cross it, I would unalive them for crossing it. I cannot accept pacifism. I will not put some abstract moral precept over lives of people. Even were hell to exist I would go there to defend certain lives in this world, not with martyrdom but with whatever means I choose. I oppose hierarchy. Violence is not my enemy. I fully realize this makes me an actual demon in the eyes of some. What. Ever. So. Be. It.

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roanoke9 wrote

Btw, I passed through the "all one" epiphany. In case you thought I just didn't get it. I totally did and then I chose to reject it.

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roanoke9 wrote

I guess pacifist rhetoric is triggering for me.

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kore wrote

I think in instinct (e.g. your "lines being crossed" as well as survival) there is no violence, and I am just trying to reflect on how my preconceptions might be clouding my instinct.

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kore wrote

nice yeah I figured you had, to me it gets more interesting every time I go through it though.

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kore wrote

perhaps of course you already know all this and your distinction between order and chaos was a way of pointing out what I said without saying it, as all wise people of history ;)

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kore wrote

"Merit" is so narrowly defined to specific talents, resulting in this type of feedback loop you describe.

If "merit" applied unilaterally, is not everyone really good at something? Even "really good at thriving despite some so-called disability"

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rattledlove1139 wrote

If "merit" applied unilaterally, is not everyone really good at something? Even "really good at thriving despite some so-called disability"

I do not understand this thought because no some people really not good at staying alive despite disability. some people can not eat without help because likely to choke, or have brain so severely damage and delay can not understand what is danger.
Yes Sometimes barrier is because people will not teach or take proper care, but sometimes barrier is brain or body incapable and even thousand years work can not change, brain and body work against survival and only still alive because of other people

i have never understood why people want to remove word disability altogether because of that. Not every disabled person can have fantastic merit even if say survival is merit and important to remember, some will always forever rely and need help

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kore wrote

For me, the people like the ones you describe are some of the best at reminding me I am mortal, and it's knowing and accepting that which makes me want to help them. Who will care for me when I am sick if I don't care for others?

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kore wrote (edited )

Yeah the "thriving" was me just inadvertently spouting neoliberal nonsense haha. I hope this comment is more up to your standards and expands on what I mean by how expansive I think "merit" could be.

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rattledlove1139 wrote

just not sure I think merit has a place in this i guess
People like me and my friends who will always need help (some on those extreme levels) just exist because we do and not need merit or use to justify that because it can go really bad really quick even if society did not abuse concept

i can sew a bit and I have fun I want to help people by sewing but if someone said that was my merit i would not be happy. I am more than things i can (or can not) provide to others and it also sometimes becomes "inspiration" and "bravery" comments which is annoying at best.
Also a pressure because if your only merit people see is "making others smile" or something and you mess up, you hurt someone, that can really really hurt and crush any self love. I would prefer have no merit than merit based entirely on what others see and think because of me

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kore wrote (edited )

and this "thriving" could be defined from a capitalist perspective rather than an ecological/anarchic one, leading to people with neurodivergence to suppress this aspect of themselves in order to keep thriving under capitalism but dividing them from a different world.

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CaptainACAB wrote

I've yet to see an actual meritocracy (thankfully); it's a term made up by the beneficiaries of nepotism so that they can pat themselves on the back for deluding themselves into thinking that they're anything other than spoiled brats that have everything handed to them.

It's yet another example of ideas dreamed up to reform Capitalism, but for people that love work ethic.

Literally devoid of value, novelty, or benefit.

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Fool wrote

I'm pretty sure there's a story from which the term was popularized, which actually shows that Meritocracy is a bad thing. Yet it still caught on as though it's a good thing.

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roanoke9 wrote

Cautionary tales are so often taken as how to manuals. Even a rendering of that ever ellusive : if not all this (the hierarchical world) then what? a small personal story, not meant to be duplicated, systemetized or enforced would be taken as a parody of itself and have the opposite effect. Alot of the time I just write something and literally burn it.

The aspiration towards meritocracy sure does seem like the explicit systematization of ableism, though.

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fortmis wrote

The mediocre-ly privileged class of privledged mediocrity !!!

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256 wrote

Everyone chooses their fights sooner or later. Whether these fights are shared and their progresses are defendable shouldn't depend on the definition of merit: Anarchist spaces can become worthless without sufficient reproduction (e.g. food), but at the same time, tonnes of food won't stop any eviction by itself. I'd argue that merit is immeasurable - meritocracy thus creates a very diffuse archy with a seemingly powerful legitimation strategy.

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