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veuzi wrote (edited )

"Parasites"

There you go. That's workerism. Noble worker makes a god out of work and a devil out of the non-worker.

I'd happily be a free rider and a parasite in this fucked up world, and a lot of people regard me as one already. Anyway: fuck work, fuck unions and fuck your antiquated leftism.

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PragmaticPaul OP wrote

  • Noble worker makes a god out of work and a devil out of the non-worker.

No I don't. We are under wage slavery and it should be abolished through class struggle. Scabbing and free riding undermines class struggle and strengthens wage slavery.

  • I'd happily be a free rider and a parasite in this fucked up world

You go along fine with your co-workers?

  • Anyway: fuck work, fuck unions and fuck your antiquated leftism.

I don't see any arguments there. Btw, I am not a leftist.

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veuzi wrote (edited )

I'm a literal free rider. I dodge public transport fares. When I have a workplace, I look for opportunities to steal from it. Sometimes I shoplift.

The entire institution of work and production is a hostile one to me. Syndicalism simply isn't relevant to what I want, so scabs and freeriders are not an issue because I would likely never stay in a job long enough to join a union anyway.

But the point here is: moral condemnation of "free-riding" reinforces capitalist and workerist morality.

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PragmaticPaul OP wrote

"But the point here is: moral condemnation of "free-riding" reinforces capitalist and workerist morality."

Not capitalist morality, on the contrary, capitalists are big free riders and parasites and syndicalism is about fighting it. You don't fight it by beeing a small free rider imitation of the big ones.

What is workerist morality?

−4

veuzi wrote

Work currently exists under the capitalist system so capitalist and workerist morality can be considered as more or less the same thing. Capitalist ideology, however, adds the need for endless growth for individuals to overcome adversity, pull themselves up by the bootstraps and get "big".

In general, workerist morality is "if you exist in society then you must work/produce/contribute whether you want to or not".

My problem with that is I don't want to contribute to this society or any hypothetical future one and I don't owe society shit just because I exist.

capitalists are big free riders and parasites

That is not the main issue with capitalists. The issue is that they have power over you and decide for the lives of everyone, that their need for profit gets tons of people killed and their endless resource extraction and mass production is ruining life on this planet via pollution and global warming.

Straight up, there is nothing wrong with taking without giving in my eyes. I'm not "imitating" the "big freeriders". I'm taking the shit I need/want because I don't want to pay for it and/or don't have the money. Looking out for myself, in other words. Part of the motivation is also to spite the economy and the law, but the effects on that is of course marginal.

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PragmaticPaul OP wrote

So the deal is other people produce and you steal from them? Is that your motto under the present system and under anarchy?

−4

veuzi wrote

I don't consent to living in capitalist society. Stealing is a way of taking what I need and undermining capitalist morality, law and economic interests to some extent.

In anarchy, it's a bit different, as there are no prohibitions or permissions. I would be even more careful with who I stole from and why I steal from them. There would probably have to be some sort of significant dispute to make that even worth it.

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PragmaticPaul OP wrote

Ok thief

−4

veuzi wrote

Ok liberal

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ziq wrote

it's obv someone doing a bit

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veuzi wrote

I'm kinda doing a bit myself tho. This guy's annoying but it's fun to be aggressively contrarian right back at them

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PragmaticPaul OP wrote

Not a liberal

−3

veuzi wrote

Haha keep telling yourself that

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PragmaticPaul OP wrote

How am I liberal?

−4

veuzi wrote

I dunno, you seem like you just want to recreate the dynamics of liberal democracy on a more decentralized scale. You're at the very least spooked beyond reproach by enlightenment values shared by liberals. Your username is also a clue. Political pragmatism is mostly associated with realpolitik.

But the real answer is that you hit me with the tired "OK boomer" format and I responded in kind.

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Gardon00765 wrote

go be a Saint and maybe people won't hsve to scab to live. Get off your worthless ass and maybe your complaints will start fixing themselves.

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PragmaticPaul OP wrote

Be a Saint?

Have to scab? Don't adults have some moral responsibility for how they behave? A worker can fight for better living conditions with the co-workers instead of undermining collective struggle.

  • your worthless ass

Is that an argument?

−3

Gardon00765 wrote

And a worker can take some direct action to make things better rather than whining over people trynna feed their family without risking jail time. So champion of the people, what have you done to make things better? Or even to stop scabs given that we both know you aren't doing anything against anybody that isnt a fellow cog.

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