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Majrelende OP wrote (edited )

I think it might be easier to understand for those who have an understanding of true natural farming, of the sort practiced by Fukuoka (rather than the similarly named but entirely different one that uses microbial fertilisers). Fukuoka did in fact "keep" chickens running around, but as I understand it they were essentially wild, a barely domesticated form who lived in flocks up in the orchard; he just gathered eggs and left them to do what they would. Another name is "do-nothing" farming, which emphasises that human knowledge is not used, to breed, or to direct the process in any way; the aim isn't to improve upon Nature, because that is impossible, but to heal and fulfill our own nature, and the earth in general. The maize I sowed out amongst the weeds seems to be thriving; an ancient variety from this region, they are as healthy as any other plant around. I am not controlling them, just letting them be, fulfilling a natural, mutual relationship. Yet who would doubt that maize is a "domesticated" plant? Perhaps they aren't, essentially. Although they can't reproduce on their own, neither can the raspberries out in the hedgerows without the assistance of the birds.

A system that breeds and "produces" living beings like factory products is awful, and disgustingly authoritarian. I don't think agriculture that controls or breeds animals can ever really be anarchic.

Humans are nature.

I couldn't agree more. Nature made us, and lives buried within us; it has been violated, beaten down by the socialisation of civilised society, but we are still human, still natural.

Anything humans do is natural.

I couldn't agree less.

There is some kind of plague, an evil spirit if you believe in that kind of thing, that has infected and destroyed the human mind, and distorted their environment. I won't define its actions; I can barely understand them myself, although what I can observe is universal strife and destruction of inner nature. That is where civilisation and authority come from, where everything went wrong.

However, you can't deny that a line has been crossed, and your purposely guided coevolution has led to a ton of suffering.

My purposely guided coevolution? That is rather aggressive. I'm not for purposely guiding or controlling anything. Leave that to the plants themselves; they already enfolded themselves in husks, stopped shattering, had delicious flesh and no one large enough to poop out the seeds (in the case of squash-- they used to be spread by pleistocene megafauna). It was up to us to take the offer to sow the seeds, or not sow them.

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roanoke9 wrote

That metaphorical plague you describe is hierarchical organization imo. I don't engage much with natural versus unnatural debate. I prefer relatively adaptive to relatively maladaptive. A species that acts according to a system that causes conditions on the planet to no longer support life for that species is maladaptive.

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