Voting or not voting is absolutely the most ridiculous thing to worry about.

Submitted by Majrelende in Anarchism

The title says it.

If all the anarchists in the world voted, there would be no noticeable change. If all the anarchists in the world did not vote, there would be no noticeable change. Do people think that a tiny percent of people voting or not voting will take the rulers out of power? I don't think so.

Why are we so galvanised by this? Voting or not voting is a personal choice, one that means nothing for the fate of the world or even ourselves, unless it comes to be inconvenient. Not voting will never take the state out of power, nor will a tiny percent of people, anarchists, be able to change the direction of things. I think we argue about this because there are far more important things we could be thinking about, which have actual beneficial effects on the world; we just don't want to pay attention because it can be difficult, and seem unsatisfying, to remove ourselves from our grudges and actually look at the steps to a better world, or village.

We argue and make ourselves unhappy rather than doing ecoculture and natural farming to help provide for our food and materials and medicine, learning and connecting to the life of the land, because apparently an insignificant symbolic act is more important than freeing ourselves from dependency on the state. People argue and are unhappy rather than connecting with others in the ways we can to gather power in egalitarian interdependence, rather than tearing down the cult of the state and sowing the seeds of its demise. Can we change this together? Help each other instead of squabbling about what doesn't matter?

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ziq wrote (edited )

we're not galvanized by voting, we're galvanized by people using anarchist spaces to electioneer and to shame anarchists into voting for sex offender war criminals and by people pushing back against that because it's blatantly oppressive and triggering and a lot of other bad things

and also because by pushing the 'voting saves lives' narrative, and the 'party x cares about x people' narrative and the 'these oil-hungry murderers kill brown people in Asia/Africa everyday but they reduce harm by giving me certain privileges' they're providing cover for the crimes of the empire. in an anarchist space

it's never been a fight about voters and non voters. it's always been about liberal ideology (representative democracy, campaigning for politicians to do 'change') vs anarchy (fuck your party, fuck your government, fuck your election, fuck your democratic process and fuck you)

it's a fundamental conflict in US/UK rad spaces because some people recognize the insular first world privilege and white-washed imperialism and some people willfully ignore it to stump for Uncle Joe because they think that privilege benefits them or will benefit them 'after the election'

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ziq wrote (edited )

tldr it's an extension of white privilege and thus stokes racist narratives that powerful white men can liberate people if 'we' grant them control over the state form

http://www.indigenousaction.org/voting-is-not-harm-reduction-an-indigenous-perspective/

if these people just voted and shut up about it, it wouldn't create conflict, but they don't, they get up on pedestals and try to loudly shame anarchists for not partaking in their sacred democracy and not supporting their party of choice, even months or years before an election.

how would you like it if you were constantly told that joe biden is a harm reducer if you were in e.g. one of his prisons or migrant cages or your house were rubble because of one of his drones or your only water supply were poison because of his pipelines or your kid were dead because his police felt 'threatened' and opened fire 80 times or your village were underwater or on fire because of the record-breaking oil drilling his 'harm reducing' government signed off on? if you a Palestinian in gaza being bombed back to the stone age every 5 years because israel needs to use up the billions of dollars in bombs biden sends them to get the next batch?

And don't forget the current electioneering wave was caused by biden promising to bring back abortion if everyone votes for him... when he spent his entire life being staunchly anti abortion and is refusing to lift a finger now, while he actually has the power, and is instead using women's bodies as a bargaining chip to get votes. Anyone feeding this gross manipulation needs to be kicked in the shins. The dems are just as responsible as the repubs for abortion going away. They've been funding the most extreme right candidates in the other party with millions for years so they can put on the lesser evil show

I hate that i kno this much about usa party politics when i only frequent anarchist spaces but they never shut up about it

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Majrelende OP wrote

It is absolutely not fine that anarchist "spaces" (quotes around anarchist too?) are being filled with party propaganda.

In one sense I think, personally, that no attention is better than negative attention for getting rid of something. If a person sends something and no one responds, no one likes or dislikes, then where is the fun, the exciting conflicts and stories? It can be hard to ignore sometimes, and I am not telling anyone to ignore them; what you are saying is very true, and I hope some of those people spreading party propaganda read your posts and shut their proverbial mouths. My message is directed at everyone who cares about anarchy, but I hope these pro-voting people can be quiet and get along with their non-useful action-- also, anti-voting anarchists can save their energy by generally ignoring them if they don't.

Maybe my first message was a little accusatory-- this debate has been going on forever and taking energy away from conversations that actually matter. I am directing it to anarchists as a whole as a call to shut the conversation.

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Majrelende OP wrote

I don't have Reddit and don't look at it much-- but from what I have heard here, if it is indeed needed maybe someone could link this there.

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Classicide2Announced wrote (edited )

maybe if you live in switzerland, then voting might have a small impact on the state

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zkLY8xTQ wrote (edited )

TLTR properly but just after your first paragraph I have to disagree, voting is not only about bringing the right people to power / the current ones away - it’s also about preventing the wrong ones to gain power. There are even parties made up of comedians who just make fun of politics, it’s better to vote for them instead of not voting at all. Simple reasoning: it gives the (far)right parties less votes (in %). Besides that the anarchist movement is small, but a lot lot lot of people are orientated to the left and are in favor of more freedom. So, let’s unite and not insist on our / your optimal world order, rather make it the best currently possible ;)

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zkLY8xTQ wrote

some time later... my views have changed a lot about voting. Leaving my initial comment though, for educational purposes.

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