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Styx wrote

TL;DR: FUCK GRAEBER!

I was bottling up my profound, visceral distaste for Graeber for so long and I cannot anymore. Like many people, I first learned about him during the occupy era and every time I tried to find out more about his ideas -- read his articles, watch his lectures/talks -- I physically and emotionally could not do so. I have never met a man so thoroughly full of himself, so conceited and vainglorious, with so little to show up for himself. Boohooo, he got kicked out of Yale for 'pOlItICaL REaSOnS' only to end up getting a professorship at that bastion of radicalness called the fucking LONDON SCHOOL OF ECONOMICS!

I dare any of his fucking fanbois (and let's be real, they are bound to be primarily cis men) to send me a single article or a talk by him that doesn't include a spiel about what a precocious, genius little boy David was as a kid. This alleged anarchist, who spent his entire life in education, till his last breath, when well into his fifties (almost 60!) continued reminding everybody who was willing to listen not about how the educational system, as it currently operates, is a massive scam and how detrimental all these advance classes/genius classes are to children. Nope, what people really needed to know was what a gifted working-class boy he was.

I'm still not done. This fucking alleged anarchist, in the year of lord 2018 (FUCKING 2018, 4 years ago) published his opus magnum 'Bullshit Jobs: A Theory', a book in which he advanced the post-left idea of abolishing the work -- oh noo!! Don't be silly! OF COURSE, HE DID NOT WRITE ABOUT THAT. In this almost 400-pages long book, Graeber argued that most jobs are soul-sucking 'bullshit' jobs and that people would rather dedicate their time and effort to activities that fulfil them. There you have it, fam, people are forced to do jobs they don't enjoy -- hope they engraved this shit on Graeber's tomb, because, really, how more radical can your analysis of work get?

Then he followed it up with The Dawn of Everything, which we discussed here already many times, so I won't go into it again.

The last thing I want to mention is the occupy movement and Graeber's involvement in it. Black keeps referring to him as a 'social democrat who calls himself an anarchist,' but I think it's worse that than. I don't know how accurate this is, but I heard somewhere Graeber was responsible for introducing the post-left 'we have no demands' to the occupy movement, which is fair enough. Probably the most anarchist thing he ever did in his entire life. But then please somebody explain this to me: WHY WERE THESE PEOPLE RE-APPROPRIATING POST-LEFT SLOGANS AND THEN DOING THE MOST CLICHED, BANAL LEFTIST SHIT IMAGINABLE??? Sitting around with their posters and placards, pushing themselves on every TV show that would have them just to say that they are a leaderless movement with no demands. WTF WAS THAT???

If you want 'reforms', then do your demonstrations and agitate for your cause. Yes, you might get some incremental improvements this way. But you'll never get anything even remotely anarchist out of conflating anarchist slogans with this tepid socdem bullshit praxis -- you just won't, you have the occupy failure (and the extinction rebellion, too) as evidence.

So, if I was not clear enough -- FUCK GRAEBER. Probably even a worse influence on anarchism than Chomsky.

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subrosa wrote

HELL YEAH. FUCK GRAEBER.

(I like him as much as Chomsky, which is, I'm conflicted about having a tiny soft spot for him left in my cold and dying heart.)

Can we put together a FUCK GRAEBER zine or essay, or a wiki page, or something along those lines? Graeber will be a topic for a long time to come, it's probably worth being a bit more thorough.

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subrosa wrote

I know the guy primarily for his UBI support, his direct democracy shit, and the fans throwing Dawn of Everything around whenever anti-civvies might have something to say. The first quarter of Debt bored me. I never explored his writings much further than that.

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ChaosAnarchy wrote

oh yeah I always had "Debt" bookmarked but couldn't really get going with it... there was just no motivation left. The Dawn of Everything was also super lengthy so I took a break at chapter 2 and months later and I haven't come back.

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Styx wrote

my cold and dying heart

KILL IT NOW!!

Can we put together a FUCK GRAEBER zine or essay, or a wiki page, or something along those lines? Graeber will be a topic for a long time to come, it's probably worth being a bit more thorough.

Yeah I think that's a really good idea. I was just ranting about the shit that really pisses me off and admittedly a lot of it is irrelevant (Like being stuck in the endless loop of reliving the glory of your primary school days -- UGH!!!). But there definitely is a lot to be said about the glorification of these white cishet socdems in anarchist's clothings and even more pressingly, about what happens when the post-left ideas get diluted by the academia as exemplified by the occupy 'movement' and 'no demands,' as well as by Bullshit Jobs vs antiwork.

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ziq OP wrote

Let's break down a Fuck Graeber essay point by point:

  1. Little Davey Graeber: Boy Genius

  2. Dave Graeber: Occupy This

  3. Democracy XIV: With Extra Democracy On Top

  4. How to rip the spine out of anti-work and make a fortune doing it

  5. A step by step guide to making social democracy cool again

  6. Just Give Everyone An Allowance: a Lifeline for late stage capitalism

  7. The dawn of everything that will take a painful steaming dump on anarchy for the next six generations

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subrosa wrote

In my slightly non-sober mind, my intoxicating idea is to have a forum for essays (or rants, idk all that much about form) about Graeber, perhaps do the critique this thing until we get a handful of essays that might make a good collection. Maybe even illustrate it. Probably a more doable project than the FAQ one we seem to have abandoned for now.

Just spitballing. Maybe I'll dive into Graeber, ignore some other challenges in my life, and get the ball rolling some time soon. I hope you would jump onto that, because I really like your style :)

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Styx wrote

Aaaawww! Love your style, too!!

And yeah, it's definitely happening! I think there's a lot in this for everyone, so let's just dive in and see what we come up with. The occupy thing, as well as the 'no demands/no movements', has been bugging me for a bit. I guess now I have a good enough excuse to start looking into it seriously.

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anooon wrote

academia

tbh, i think THIS is the problem here, there, and everywhere. take an anarchist, give them a job at a university, a term later you've got a graeber/chomsky/bookchin.

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Styx wrote

Well yeah, plus that neither of the aforementioned was really an anarchist to begin with.

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mindforgedmanacles wrote

I have quite a bit of mistaste for Graeber myself, but what are your critiques of TDoE? Is there a thread on here that already goes over them?

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Styx wrote

This youtube channel has a few videos breaking it down chapter by chapter, well worth seeing it. If you prefer reading, there are links to transcripts in the video descriptions.

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