Submitted by subrosa in Anarchism

I'm fairly confident in saying that the various religions in this world have produced some of the more interesting histories. They're like ancient networks of meaning within a well-documented tradition — keys to understanding how societies functioned in the past and what aspects 'we' inherited. Religions are perhaps best considered as archives.

Myself, I prefer the archives of zombie and frankenstein folklore. There's more relatable shit in classic horror than in any holy book. But even that will eventually show its age.

Maybe just a discussion-starter. What's your approach to religion, theology, philosophy of religion, or whatever may relate?

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Potkea wrote

A jealous lover of human liberty, and deeming it the absolute condition of all that we admire and respect in humanity, I reverse the phrase of Voltaire, and say that, if God really existed, it would be necessary to abolish him.

— Michael Bakunin, God and the State

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[deleted] wrote

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Potkea wrote

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Garbear104 wrote

Or to not make it to begin with. Its a personal choice sure. Doesnt mean decidinf to believe in make believe and embrace a lack or critical thinking is healthy or shows a positive example to those who can't properly decide such as children who can't decipher the fictions from truth.

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[deleted] wrote

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Garbear104 wrote

nope it doesn't tho. Because it accepts things as fact without proof. And also encourages pedophilia.

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squid wrote

Sorry for deleting my account. I just got frustrated and deleted it then left. Anyway, if you want to know about pedophilia you can read the bible.

Matthew 18:5-6 says: Whoever receives one such child in my name receives me; but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened round his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.

This is how serious of a sin pedophilia is. The Catholic church did address the issue of child abuse and honestly even I wonder why it happens within the church and when did it start. I will never leave my faith though and never support those disgusting acts. Pope Francis also addressed the issue and he condemns it.

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Garbear104 wrote

doesn't mention pedophilia. Just making kids sin. The pope doesn't condemn it. This is why people don't take religious people serious. Saying you condemn whole leading the organization and doing nothing means nothing. Its pr.

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Garbear104 wrote

Yup. Empty words. Why are you pretending to think anything else was meant? Do you think the United States actually condemns racism and such when they say it as well?

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squid wrote

You have no source no evidence that the pope doesn't condemns sexual abuse yet you think you're right just because you said so while your statements can be easily dis-proven. Why do you get from purposefully lying about it? You tell me that I am incapable of critical thinking, that I believe in things that aren't real yet you convince yourself of your own lies. You say you care about science and facts yet in reality you only do when it fits your narrative. Why not just be honest?

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Garbear104 wrote

I'm right because empty word don't mean anything. A racist can claim to be not racist but it dont change that they are. The pope is the leading figure of a cult that controls people and hides child rape. You support it you arent an anarchist and none of you trash are. You are enablers that play a role in ruining children's lives. Your weak and that let's suffering happen when you won't stand up. Also by the way, disprove them. Show me evidnece thr mass graves are fake and the victims are all liars. Do it. I get nothing by lying. Its why I'm not doing it. Now instead of trying to slander get to defending your pedophile ruler with some actual substance. Not lies. You are bad at critically thinking and also an enabler. But im not lying about anything. The pope doesn't condemn it. They are empty words spoken by a man who openely said they wouldt turn in or do anything about a confessing rapist. Nope. I care about science and truth in general. It always hurts critical thinking skills to accept lies and delusions. Your just coping really hard and its sad.

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squid wrote

I recommend you read this. The Church has been doing things to stop sexual abuse and most cases of it date back to before the 21st century, it's pretty rare that it happens today, if anything it happens less often in the Catholic church today than in other institution, just read this page, all the sources are at the end of the page: https://mercatornet.com/ten-myths-about-sexual-abuse-in-the-catholic-church/24711/

As for the unmarked grave we don't know enough to come to a clear conclusion, nor do we even know the cause of death of those people. The graves could have been unmarked because they used wooden cross to mark them and with time they decomposed, because making grave stones were pretty expensive back then and maybe couldn't afford it. Probably that's not what happened but anyway we shouldn't come to conclusion so quickly with no research. And no clear evidence of what happened. Worst thing is we don't even have clear evidences yet they started burning down churches without even knowing anything. If anything you're the one speaking empty words. You provide no proof not evidence to back up your claims yet you say you're right. Sounds like you just hate religion and don't care about proof or even facts you just care about calling other people names without even thinking. Be a NPC if you want but I'm just saying you're not really making yourself look credible but more like someone who is biased and falsely accuse others of doing things they didn't do because "it's true because I said so and your words mean nothing". You're being pretty cringe right now.

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Garbear104 wrote

What institutions? List em out. What is it better than in terms of rape count if that's really where you wanna go? My guess is it isnt tho and your grasping at straws to avoid responding to my points. Nah we do know enough tho. Its just the perpetrators and their enablers dont wanna take responsibility. They defend dead child rapists and killers because it is a core part of your identity whether you wanna admit or not. I have gave proof tho. Mutiple times actually. The popes entry words, much like a racists, mean nothing when he constantly shows he stands in contrast to them. Which he does regularly by his actions. I do hate religion. They all brainwash people and harm their critical thinking skills by warping their perception of reality whole young enough to nkt comprehend it. Npc, bias, yadda yadda. Reply to what I said weak ass. Stop trying to avoid it all. Where us your evidence of God? Of miracles and the popes increases connection to God? Burden is on you.

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squid wrote

Yet you never provided any proof. This is just laughable at this point. Also the rate of child abuse in the church used to the the same as the rate of child abuse in general outside the church, Catholics had no higher rates of child abuse than the general population and schools. Actually they had slightly lower rates and today they have way lower rates than the general population and schools. Why is no one calling out child abuse in school? How about women who work as teacher and abuse little boys sexually in schools and they get away with it and don't even lose their jobs? That's not a problem?

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Garbear104 wrote (edited )

I did tho. Mass graves and victim reports. You live under a rock or you gonna admit to feigning being dense here? Whats laughable? You inability to engage with anything I've given you since it go agaisnt your dogma? It is pretty pathetic so kinda funny maybe? Wierd that the people claiming moral superiority rape as much as the proles n peasants huh? It aint true and the church hid numbers but sure even your make beleieve land it still looks bad. People don't call it out in school for many reasons. One being complacency with authority systems that endorse and permit it such as the church. Nice whatboutism. Anarchists are always against rape hotshot. Dont know what your expecting here. How the fuck does your child rape cult supporting ass think i have no problem with it? Explain. Thr attempt at slander instead of trying to dodge everything again like youve been doing. List out those institutions by the way. General population isnt an institution lol

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squid wrote

I'm still waiting for your proof. Where is it?

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Garbear104 wrote

Victim reports. If your insinuating it isnt good enough than use words lil boy. Say they are lying. Say their words aren't good enough.

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squid wrote

As I thought, you didn't read anything I sent or any proof I've provided with source included. You're being ignorant on purpose and refusing to understand.

Ignorance is strength am I right?

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Garbear104 wrote

I did. You just keep saying I didn't give any proof because your incapable. Nothing ignorant about calling out your inabilities. You arent an anarchist and need to go by the way. People like you scare off actual victims and people who need help.

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squid wrote

Oh and downvoting doesn't make you right either, just saying.

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Garbear104 wrote

neither does crying about internet points that do nothing lol

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squid wrote (edited )

Oh and not only that but if they hated those people why would they even bury them? Why would they even give them proper Christian burial? If anything they wouldn't have buried them at all. How dare those evil Christian give them a proper Christian burial, that's so evil, isn't it? The death were probably caused by some disease, virus or something that people caught and a lot of people died from it and they buried them but couldn't afford grave stones to they used wood cross instead. You don't know and the whole thing makes no sense.

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lettuceLeafer wrote

Glad ur back. If u get upset I suggest u t use the block button liberally. Works pretty good.

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squid wrote

Yeah I'll do that next time, thanks. The topic of religion is something I like talking about but I get easily offended when people are being rude, arrogant and disrespectful. I do my best to be respectful and not insult anyone though it can happen sometimes by accident. I used to constantly get bullied for my faith, mostly by protestants and some atheists so sometimes it affects me and I take it personal when I shouldn't.

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lettuceLeafer wrote

Yeah u where treated kinda shit.

Tho now that things have calmed down I do have to say one thing. If I remember correctly u called performing gay acts of Sodomy as sins and seemed to think sins are bad and not good to do. Tho if u didn't say that ignore me. I would check tho it's deleted.

While I will defend u I'm not going to defend u and we will have a problem if u say more shit like that. While it's fine to say catholicism views gay sex as a sin or sins are bad the combination of those two beliefs is homophobic. Not tell u to change ur opinion tho I should. Just don't say that shit around here.

Stuff like that can be really hurtful for no good reason so I won't have any sympathy if u say stuff like that again. I mean mistakes happen u can acknowledge mistakes n stuff.

Tho mostly I was incredibly annoyed / disappointed with the discourse and how people talked to u. A potentially really interesting Convo was ruined by people making statements easily proved wrong and making stuff u just to be antaganistic.

Hope u feel better and happy to see u around.

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squid wrote

Yeah well my intention was not to say that it's good or bad. I was just saying that it's a sin in Catholicism. As for it being bad or good it's not for me to judge. But whatever your sexuality, race, religion, gender, etc. is I think everyone deserve to be loved and be treated with kindness and compassion. I think people seen it as me being judgmental while all I wanted to do was saying that in Catholicism it is considered sinful and I didn't want to lie and say it's not. I hope you understand.

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lettuceLeafer wrote

Nah that's fine. Just figured since ur catholic u would consider sins to be wrong.

I say gay is a sin all the time tho I think sins are great. So what u said is fine in my book then. We cool

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squid wrote

Yeah I don't really classify sins in a good or bad category actually but in their own category. One could be both good and doing something sinful but that doesn't mean it's necessarily bad, just sinful. If you ask me what I would classify it as, I would classify it as neither good or bad. It's just what it is. I don't label sexuality as good or bad, sexuality is just sexuality, if you understand what I mean.

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squid wrote

Sin is something that puts you further away from God basically. And hell is a place without God. You would want to be the closet to God as possible because we all need God in our life. So we should avoid sin, we should confess and ask for forgiveness and repent for our sins in order to strengthen our relationship with God.

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Garbear104 wrote

Whu do we all need God in our life if he isnt good or bad? I thought you said sin was neutral and not something to look down on but here you are backtracking like you lying cultists do. Saying they should as to be forgiven for who they are. For those curious why people have been go elsewhere its because the encouragement of people like this. People who's cult has been power since near its inception to control and steer society. People gotta pick who their sidong with. The oppressed or the oppressors

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squid wrote

No one is forced you know. You're not forced to be Catholic. You're not forced to believe something is right or wrong, sinful or not sinful. There is no point in attacking people who do. Why do you even care if it's sinful or not in my religion when you're not even Catholic yourself? If you were Catholic then sure you can prove me wrong and show me in scripture or in the Catechism where I'm wrong but you aren't. I am Catholic and I will never leave the Catholic faith no matter how much you try to demonize it, make me leave it or lie about it. If you want to become Catholic I encourage you to meet a priest at your local Catholic church and read the bible and learn about our lord and saviour Jesus Christ. You will not be deceived. I hope and I will pray that God helps you and guide you on the right path.

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Garbear104 wrote

You coerce people from youth with developing brains so they have irrational fear of the unknown and thus can never critically think to the most. The point is you harm others. Stop trying to play innocent when your cult has done so much damage. Its pathetic coming from an "anarchist" I know you won't leave it. Becasue defending pedophiles and the right to brainwash youth is integral to your personality. Its hoe you religous folk are. Its why there's no poont trying to readon with you. You are a willing oppresor who doesn't wanna change.a threat. I think ill pass on the advice and you should be banned for encouraging potential youth to seek interaction from pedophic organizations. God isnt real and your prayers do nothing. Feed your ego off the worthless words but know they truelly do nothing Your faith is nothing and changes nothing. The only change your God has brought is an easier time for those in power to keep rape and abuse victims quiet.

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Garbear104 wrote

If God wanted humans to not suffer he wouldn't allow us to. Why support em?

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Garbear104 wrote

He did tho. He created everything and has that power or he isnt a god. Also lol we don't know isnt much of an answer from a professional liar lol.

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ziq wrote

You can be religious and be an anarchist

Sure, but catholic and anarchist? There's no anarcho-pope.

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Garbear104 wrote

still unhealthy. If you believe in magic based on no evidnece than why not believe racism is true?

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Fool wrote (edited )

Do you believe in Science with no evidence?

When was the last time you saw an electron?

Did you use your own eye or a special tool designed by "Scientists"?

What about evidence based magic?

Is the world alive?

Is the planet a god?

How do you know? https://immediatism.com/archives/472

P.S. Racism generally uses "Science", e.g. statistics.

P.P.S: not defending Catholicism.

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Garbear104 wrote

I dont personally need to see an electron through a microscope because scientists can actually take that proof and show it to people without them needing to be a skilled a scientist as well. Tools are fine. There is no evidnece for magic and miracles or God. No the world isn't alive. Its a ball of rock and dirt and much more with living stuff on it. No it isn't a god. Because words have meaning and trying to pretend that you call a plethora of things God is silly. Racism doesn't use science tho. They say they do to appear smart but much like religion has no actual evidnece even when they claim to. All smoke and appearances

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Fool wrote

So what you're saying is that you have faith in the tools created by scientists, and you believe the tools are showing you what it is that they're telling you it is?

No the world isn't alive.

Can you prove it is not alive?
Where is the evidence?
Or do you just believe that because people have told you that it is a scientific fact?

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Garbear104 wrote

the tools, the scientists themselves, and my eyes yes. Yes I can prove it isnt alive. Thr core isn't sentient. The mantle doesn't have a liver or organs. Are you seriously trying to pull some flat earth shit right now? Burden of proof dont work that way. You wanna claim magic as fact that you must provide evidnece for that. The evidence for the world not being alive is quite plentiful. No blood flowing through the crust like a creature for example, no plant like structures throught the entirety to make it living either.

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Garbear104 wrote (edited )

Nope. There isnt tho. Please do give it. Never could be. Your denial of science doesn't change that. Believe that racism is true as in correct. Becasue you base your acceptance of reality upon no evidnece

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moonlune wrote

I like theology: when larping as a theist, I get to use new postulates when thinking about the world, and pushing this "new" logic to its limits is fun. It's not much more than an intellectual exercise thought.

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Fool wrote

I've really been getting into "religious" and "spiritual" texts recently. Having also listened to Graeber's Dawn of Everything and PLW's Shamanic Trace recently, the historical side of it is probably what started me on reading it.

I finally read listened to the Tao Te Ching, it was decent, but I don't think I got anything from it; having already listened to other people's interpretation.

The philosophical ideas present in at least Buddhist and Hindu, have been interesting, but can be a bit confusing since I haven't actually read the basic religious texts.

I think it's mainly helped solidify my position on Order, Stagnation and Efficiency.

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ruinsociety wrote

I attribute luck to God. I pray to God for more good luck. Mixed results so far.

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fortmis wrote

@subrosa , have you looked into "historical jesus" or "historical muhammad" ? i find historical (secular) research into religious leaders is so exciting and enlightening.

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subrosa OP wrote

I haven't. Must be plenty going on in that area, I should have a peek some time. Anything in particular you find exciting?

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fortmis wrote

i have a wonderium account (fka the Great Courses on demand) and they have a cool lecture series on historical Jesus. based off of what I've picked up over the years, there's a whole story under the surface about what was happening in rome/middle east in the world around jesus.

there's also a thing called the Book of Q which is hard to describe so here's the wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_source

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[deleted] wrote (edited )

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fortmis wrote (edited )

hahaha fair enough. I'll give you that. I think the copy I found when I was a kid happened to be called the Book of Q, so here i am stuck between a rock and a qanon place.

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metocin wrote

I think there is a lot to learn from different religions, but that committing to one is dogmatic and limits your knowledge and potential enlightenment. I think that spirituality itself is more important than (claiming to) follow a religion, and that disregarding spirituality altogether is a mistake, one that many anarchists and leftists make especially. As an anti-civ/prim anarchist I think that looking into our past of indigenous, pagan, and animist spirituality can help us understand the crises we are currently suffering from and how we can reform some of the spirituality that we lost due to civilization, colonization and secularism. I think that this spirituality is essential to a post-civ/new primitive way of living and that as anti-civ anarchists we should not be so quick to say "No Gods" like some of the other flavours of anarchists out there. After all, pre-civ/pre-state humans weren't "Atheists".

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fortmis wrote

holy cow i was not expecting a lot of what i just read here.

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syllaby wrote

I try to separate what the religious institutions appropriate and the actual living knowledge/practice they claim to have authority over. Institutions come after this knowledge and even tradition is a step after the living thing. Once I can make that separation I feel like I can relate to the immediate, living practices or concepts and find many of them useful, at least a lot more useful than psychiatry and ubiquitous christian moralism.

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AnarcheAmor wrote

I've learned a lot about religion, belief, and faith. My main conclusion and approach is that there are two types of beliefs: those that are institutional and those that are more domestic or personal. The former is believed in in the same way that one "believes" in the U.S. constitution, that it is foundational for the culture and society you live in but you might not think too much of it on a daily basis. The latter is believed in in the way that a community may believe in various tall tales and have their own set of spirits, cryptids, monsters, etc.

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