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subrosa OP wrote

I've been bothering anarchist subreddits about apolitical and anti-political approaches for a while now. I feel it's an under-explored approach to anarchy; it should complement all that talk about authority and statism, but I don't see a whole lot of that. Not sure why I made this post, I guess it's just pointing at something.

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bloodrose wrote

Kind of like being an ungovernable wild human? I can embrace this concept.

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subrosa OP wrote

Yeah, I guess so. It's about abandoning arche, the ship of state, any dictatorship really. Whether the captain is the patriarch of the nuclear family-boat, or the embodied or symbolic "will of the people" of the unsinkable and truly titanic state.

Just for fun, to spin this metaphor a little further: politics is about who gets to have their hands on the steering wheel, about how the ship is directed. Some crew-members want to go left, others want to go right, some call for mutiny or "having a say", and they all believe in conserving the vessel, its economic order, and in moving the whole thing for progress.

Close to the breaking point of the metaphor, we might have a look at piracy, or at those who pride themselves in organizing the construction of massive counter-ships that they hope can compete one day. Those of us in the lower compartments know too well what it's like to drop below surface, to be pushed down, to be drowning. The anarchists dream of having a good swim in the horizontal, unbordered and everchanging "waters". It can be liberating to help each other stay afloat, we don't need to be contained.

A bilge-rat, I prepare their shipwreck; that shipwreck alone can put an end to my troubles and to those of my fellows.

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Gwen_Isilith wrote

I forget the specific text but I believe it's from John Moore where he discusses anarchic mysticism in terms of the authoritarian God, the revolutionary authority Satan, That to be consumed Nature, and the primordial extra of anarchy (different language is used I believe). Pretty much anarchy is the thing that exists both outside of those who currently run the ship and those pirates who would seek to make the ship their own as you've stated.

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Gwen_Isilith wrote

I don't have much to offer in terms of actually starting a conversation on this topic but did want to express my interest. I have only recently started to understand anti-politics exposed first through Baedan and then extrapolating those ideas through my previous thoughts. (It's core is the negation was another influence as well as A!'s work on Nihlism). It is definitely something I have not fully come to grips with, which has led to quite a few contradictions in my thoughts (and there are also still contradictions left from the influence of post-left thought on my leftist influence).

To go back on my previous statement perhaps one area I think there is possibly an interesting conversation to be had is between Aragorn's conception of Indigenous (which is to my knowledge the same as Geral Vizenor's conception of the lower case i indian) and Baedan's conception of Queer negativity. (Also i would speculate their is a connection then too to Afro-Pessimism but my only real exposure to this school of thought has been through the band clipping).

I don't know if anyone else has thoughts on this connection they'd like to share or if not I will extrapolate on what I mean some time tomorrow perhaps.

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subrosa OP wrote

Might need to revisit A! and Baedan for that. I'm curious about how you would go about connecting the threads. No pressure tho.

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Gwen_Isilith wrote

I see it in a few ways, the first would be a historical and function connection. For A! (And Vizenor) being Indigenous is being post-genocidal both physically after mass killings but also culturally. And so being Indigenous is not a birth right; blood quantum is a purely legal structure and what instead matters is the ties to place or culture.

Perhaps this is a controversial connection but similarly queer identity has faced a similar killing in the forms of the aids crisis and cultural destruction (which I would point to the text Anal Terror from Baedan 3 for the history of this) in terms of anal castration which is both a function of schooling and homo-nationalism (though perhaps nationalism is simply an outcome of the castration).

Queer identity's connection to blood is much different from that of Indigenous identity however but both in the formation and continuance of culture rely on elders or mentors (the aids crisis has especially left such a generational gap for queer folk that a lot of queer identity is ahistorical). And so for both in terms of post-genocide find oneself in a hostile world with little to no guidance.

My other connection is that the formation of queerness in Baedan is not a sexual identity, but instead is an attempt to negate sexuality and gender. And so too it would seem to me that A!'s conception of Indigeneity has nothing to do with race (A! Has stated that even white people can be Indigenous anarchists) but is instead a position that aims to negate this racial category. A good example of this I think is especially the rejection of the past, or at least the understanding that one can not simply return to old ways, but one must find their own way (this is especially prevelant in Nihlist Animism). And it seems to me that a similar question is posed to queers of "what does a post-aids queerness look like?" For those who reject the homonationalist movement, while there are lessons one can take from the past and ones predecessors (I would point to the text "The Faggots and Their Friends") ultimately it is about living with a future. And so if Indigeneity is about living in relation to the land without a land, queerness is living in relation to a time without a temporality (without a past and without a future (both I'm terms of its erasure and in terms of genetics)).

Finally I might posit a third part of this relationality as a hypothesis; hopefully others more familiar with the topic could contribute their thoughts to it. That Blackness then may be about living culturally without a culture. (I posit this mainly in relation to the slave trade which largely has erased black culture which has been replaced by a slave/post-slavery culture (to my knowledge the mixing of white culture such as Christianity has affected both black and Indigenous culture to a large extent).

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Kinshavo wrote

I think I was drawn to anarchism bc of apolitical/anti-political position... This negation now drives me further to the relationship between nihilism and anarchism, post left understanding and what I perceive as an Anarchism "outside" politics in some sense.

I got shut down so many times in my youth bc of my position, even if I didn't understand it in that time. People would retreat me as a crypto-fascist (because of this fallacious idea of third position and "negation" of politics in a way that lead people to abdicating their own their lives to some leader).

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