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[deleted] wrote (edited )

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haulonthebowline wrote

all(?)

Aragorn! wasn't white. dot matrix isn't male. etc.

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[deleted] wrote (edited )

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haulonthebowline wrote

I wouldn't call them post-left

I wouldn't call them that now, but back then they were. A! was the editor of AJODA.

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[deleted] wrote (edited )

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haulonthebowline wrote

I could just be using the term a lot more narrowly tho.

Yeah I think the term has narrowed over the years. It used to mean more or less 'anarchists who aren't leftists' and included Zerzan et al. Now it seems to refer specifically to the handful of authors you mentioned.

A! had a long and varied story. He even had a leftist period way back, believe it or not.

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a_zed_9 OP wrote

Could you elaborate on what you find weak or "problematic" about the position? If you would, I'd also be interested to hear your criticisms of the discussion of race among post-left authors.

If I can attempt to summarize: is it fair to say you agree with them in some respects but not on this topic or when it comes to race? Would you say its also fair to say then that you view these stances as not integral to their larger analysis?

I don't think I agree that this is a time based thing. I believe there are comments from Anews in 2007 recounting a member of AJODA defending Hakim Bey (im unsure if he's ever come out as a pedophile or just an advocate to my knowledge he does work with NAMBLA though writing poetry). As well, while I'm least familiar with Bey's work, he is still around and writing to my knowledge and I haven't seen anything suggesting he's change his stance on this topic.

As well if you are unaware "MAP rights" is a growing movement. And while for the most part this is a liberal movement there are self proclaimed pedophiles in the anarchist and post left milue and while I'm unaware of any authors among them it was this sub group that made me aware of this issue of AJODA. So while it is less public, the discussion of this topic is still ongoing.

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[deleted] wrote

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a_zed_9 OP wrote

Interesting I've never really made a connection between anti-identity and white men. It may just be who I surround myself with though.

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celebratedrecluse wrote

I've never really made a connection between anti-identity and white men

Reactionary talking points are impossibl to read or hear without coming across this connection. Surely you must have been aware of it to some degree?

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a_zed_9 OP wrote

I consider myself anti identity and many of my friends hold similar positions, I just don't know any white men who hold this position.

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celebratedrecluse wrote

chapo trap house

although you could critique their working class politics as some form of identity politics, this is by far the biggest influence in english language critical to identity politics without reflexively bowing to hegemonic propaganda

also dominated by white men

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a_zed_9 OP wrote

Ah okay, yeah I'm completely unfamiliar with them. But yes I would consider working class politics as identity politics.

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[deleted] wrote

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a_zed_9 OP wrote

Oh okay, I guess I'm unaware what the differences are between the "white man approach" and the "non-white non-man approach" are.

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haulonthebowline wrote

I believe there are comments from Anews in 2007 recounting a member of AJODA defending Hakim Bey

What do you mean by 'defending'? If you mean saying something along the lines of '99% of Bey's writing - the writing that isn't about children - is really great' then you don't need to go to an anonymous comments section from 13 years ago. I'll say it for you right now. Have you read this https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/peter-lamborn-wilson-anarchist-religion? Seriously, do yourself a favor: stop wallowing in libcom drama and read it.

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a_zed_9 OP wrote

Im not saying Bey isn't a good author or that he should be avoided. What I mean is there are still people who defend Hakim Beys position on child sexuality. Thus showing how this is not a time based phenomenon.

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[deleted] wrote

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a_zed_9 OP wrote

I will admit I have seen any texts that are written in this same fashion but there is still discourse today that doesn't focus on "danger and consent". Though the texts I am aware of that are more modern are academic and not part of the anarchist milue though some of them as well critique this motion of "consent and danger".

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haulonthebowline wrote

What I mean is there are still people who defend Hakim Beys position on child sexuality

Who?

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a_zed_9 OP wrote

This person who was tabling for AJODA. As well there seems to me a growing number of anarchists who are self proclaimed pedophiles, and some of them draw on Hakim's stance of child sexuality (and that of NAMBLA more generally) as a core part of their anarchism. Though I'll admit it seems they are more often influenced by Wolfi and Duave.

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haulonthebowline wrote

This person who was tabling for AJODA

So now you're talking about a person who was sat at a bookfair with a copy of AJODA in front of them? I thought you were talking about a comment on anews from thirteen years ago?

there seems to me a growing number of anarchists who are self proclaimed pedophiles

Only in your mind, comrade. I've been around for a decade and have met most of the people mentioned in this thread in person more than once. I've literally never heard a single person talk about what you're talking about.

some of them draw on Hakim's stance of child sexuality

Again, who?

it seems they are more often influenced by Wolfi

Wolfi's writing on insurrectionism is very popular. His one short essay on child sexuality from the mid 80s is not. In fact, it was long forgotten until Heresy distro reprinted it for god knows what reason.

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a_zed_9 OP wrote

So now you're talking about a person who was sat at a bookfair with a copy of AJODA in front of them? I thought you were talking about a comment on anews from thirteen years ago?

The comment from 13 years ago is about someone tabling for AJODA.

I've been around for a decade and have met most of the people mentioned in this thread in person more than once. I've literally never heard a single person talk about what you're talking about.

There is quite a decent sized community of pedophile anarchists on Twitter in my experience, that is who I am talking about here. If you are unaware of them that's okay but I'd prefer if you didn't make comments like "it's all in your in mind".

Again, who?

Again these self described pedophiles who are anarchists I am talking about.

Wolfi's writing on insurrectionism is very popular. His one short essay on child sexuality from the mid 80s is not. In fact, it was long forgotten until Heresy distro reprinted it for god knows what reason.

Wolfi's writing on child sexuality is popular among pedophiles and some "MAP" rights anarchists. And while this popularity may be less than the popularity of his other texts in other milues I think you are completely erasing a milue he has been influential in.

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haulonthebowline wrote

AJODA

AJODA isn't an obscure magazine. People tabled it all over the world. It was even for sale at news stands.

There is quite a decent sized community of pedophile anarchists on Twitter in my experience

But is there, really? How many people are you talking about? Ten? Fifteen?

Wolfi's writing on child sexuality...

You mean one short essay here. Stop pretending that there are books and books full of this stuff.

...is popular among pedophiles and some "MAP" rights anarchists. And while this popularity may be less than the popularity of his other texts in other milues I think you are completely erasing a milue he has been influential in.

Even the Heresy Distro person said that the text was lost until they published it a few years back. If he is influential in this shadowy group of Twitter anarchist pedophiles that you keep referring to (that no one else has ever heard of btw) it has only been so very recently.

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a_zed_9 OP wrote

But is there, really? How many people are you talking about? Ten? Fifteen?

Personally I only know maybe 50?

You mean one short essay here. Stop pretending that there are books and books full of this stuff.

Well there's also his essay "to be done with the economy of love". As well other texts on the subject in the Milue, such as this AJODA issue, or Girl Love which is promoted inside it, or NAMBLA which is both a communist org and has ties to Hakim Bey, as well as Gilles Duaves piece from the (I believe) left communist milue. So my point is just this is not some isolated thing. Plenty of people on the left and post-left make these same points about child sexuality.

Even the Heresy Distro person said that the text was lost until they published it a few years back. If he is influential in this shadowy group of Twitter anarchist pedophiles that you keep referring to (that no one else has ever heard of btw) it has only been so very recently.

I've only know these people for a little less then a year so I'm unsure how recently theve found tgese texts but it does not change that this viewpoint has existed for at least 30 years.

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[deleted] wrote

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a_zed_9 OP wrote

While I'm familiar with this annotated version I have not seen these comments, I look forward to reading them, thank you!

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