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subrosa wrote

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ShadesPath wrote (edited )

Only if you believe so. It's not necessary for anarchists to have everything they advocate for be anarchist. Maybe for purposes of, say, organizing a community of nonanarchists, you would adopt structures that are more familiar to those people.

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Esperaux OP wrote

Or you know you could just understand that the context being surrounding the organization of a community fridge project which apparently everyone here thinks will somehow lead to slavery if done in a democratic manner because they're too up their ass with Bob Black's bs.

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anarchyfrog wrote

I don't think anyone knows what a community fridge is, seems to be a very regional concept.

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ziq wrote

You literally defended slavery fam. Has nothing to do with managing a fridge. Own your shit.

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Esperaux OP wrote

No I didn't I pointed out that the only other options you present as an alternative to POWs is to either outright murder them or set them loose. Then when asked further you retreated into this idea that all situations only ever occur on an individual level like a childish liberal. Oh not to mention you still haven't provided any actual case for why democratically running a community fridge is apparently an equivalent to enslaving people which seems to be your only weasel method of holding a discussion with me instead of reading what I have to say is to falsely claim that I was arguing in favor of slavery.

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ziq wrote

Oh not to mention you still haven't provided any actual case for why democratically running a community fridge is apparently an equivalent to enslaving people

Because I never said anything like that? How am I going to defend a strawman you completely made up? I would never share a fridge. No one is touching my food. When I was in a shared living space for 3 years I just never used the fridge because I didn't want to risk anyone fucking with my food or their meat getting on it.

like a childish liberal.

That superiority complex, fam. Yes I'm an individualist. All anarchists should prize their individuality if they understand what anarchy entails.

No, I'm not going to fight a war to build democratic factories and oil rigs. I'd sooner demolish them than sacrifice my life to maintaining them. Stop assuming I share your bankrupt deadend ideology just because we're on the same site.

I don't support organized war in any way. I don't support prisons in any way. I don't care what the material conditions in your fantasy scenarios are, I'm not sharing a fridge, I'm not participating in your war, I'm not enslaving your ideological enemies to build your democratic tanks and I'm not murdering nuns for disobeying your orders. Fuck your democratic army, fuck your democratic factories and most of all fuck your democratic fridges.

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Esperaux OP wrote (edited )

A community fridge isn't meant to force people to share food wtf? It's a method of dealing with food insecurity in a community. You understand that correct?

Also you are aware of the concept of abolishing commodity production and how that factors into things such as work abolition and moving away from extractivism?

You seem to be describing collectivized industry operating under the capitalist mode of production.

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ziq wrote (edited )

Also you are aware of the concept of abolishing commodity production and how that factors into things such as work abolition and moving away from extractivism?

I'm aware of that Marxist fantasy, yes. Removing profit and exchange from the equation but maintaining industry won't stop extractivism even if profit and exchange were actually abolished, which no socialist revolution has ever done because it's impossible to produce the highly specialized industrial goods today's highly civilized people demand without profit and exchange.

In this fantasy where industrialism is preserved but with goods only being produced to meet the "needs of the people" rather than to make profit or to be exchanged for other goods, lavish "needs" as defined by 21st century yuppies will make it impossible to mine, process and manufacture the goods in a single location by a single population using a single ecosystem's resources, necessitating exchange and profit to acquire and coordinate all the global specialized resources, skills and technologies needed to manufacture the item.

Exploited labor will be utilized at some point along the mining / manufacturing / transportation chain since there's no way for you to control the labor practices of people in distant lands, including all the industries that are involved indirectly (e.g. energy).

Colonization, slavery and ecocide will be perpetuated to produce the specialized goods that are desired by the anarcho-technocrats the fictional society has been built to serve whether they're making a profit or not.

Resources will continue to be extracted and goods will continue to be mass produced whether they're labelled commodities or not. To suggest everyone will just stop extracting resources if everything their hearts desire were free for the taking is straight up delusional. If anything, they'll extract more.

collectivized industry operating under the capitalist mode of production.

No shit. There's the complete history of communism in one succinct sentence. Industrialism and capitalism are one and the same.

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