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ziq wrote (edited )

What don't you understand about my position? I don't believe in assembling an army to fight a civil war to assert an ideology on a country, so I'm incapable of taking POWs. If I'm in a position where someone is trying to kill me, I'm going to defend myself, by killing them if necessary. That doesn't contradict with my ethical stance against taking slaves. Using the force of self defense against people who are trying to kill you does not violate their freedom. Forcing them to be your slaves after the fact, does violate their freedom.

I never promoted slavery

You quite literally justified slavery by saying killing fascists who are trying to kill you is a violation of their freedom, so taking them as slaves is more (moral).

My ethics are pretty easy to understand. If someone violates my autonomy, freedom and survival, I get to fight back in any way I need to in order to preserve my life. Taking them as slaves has nothing to do with preserving my life and is thus unethical.


Esperaux OP wrote (edited )

Your position is nonsensical and contradictory. People don't live in bubbles. They're inherently social creatures. You as an individual inherently rely on other individuals. We are not talking about a single individual trying to kill you. We are talking about a full blown fascist army. It's not up to you as an individual to decide if there's a conflict or not. Conflicts have existed even before the state. Individuals survive and protect their autonomy best when working with other individuals.

This is practically a liberal take to focus on this issue from a purely individualist perspective with no regards for other outside systemic factors.

Also again with the slave argument. No one is defending slavery. I'm simply pointing out that in a conflict it's unreasonable to either execute all your POWs or just set them loose.


ziq wrote

You are not the general of a socialist military force trying to establish a new world order. I refuse to buy into your fantasy. I'm not a general in a war. I'm a nobody on an internet forum.

Justifying slavery is justifying slavery, your reasons for justifying it ("My ideology is better than my slaves' ideology") don't change the fact that you're justifying it. Someone is defending slavery: you.


Esperaux OP wrote (edited )

Again you're deflecting from the actual point. We are discussing history right now not hypotheticals. A war occurred where a fascist military was sweeping across the country. In response anarchist militias organized against this military. The anarchists were not perfect but that is what happened. Now how exactly does this liberal view of yourself as an isolated individual fit into this? Do you think that people shouldn't have come together to fight the fascists at all? What do you think should've happened to the POWs?

As an anarchist you of all people should be aware generals are often not the ones to actually fight and die in these wars.

Also I'm done with the slavery nonsense you keep trying to accuse me of supporting slavery because you have no actual response.


ziq wrote

I'd kill a nun-killing democrat just as soon as I'd kill a democrat-killing fascist if either of them violated my autonomy or tried to involve me in their war to control the factories.

The mistake you keep making is assuming I'm on the side of syndies just because they support an alternative mode of production. I support no mode of production. I'm an off-grid remote mountain recluse who has no interest in participating in society beyond what I'm forced to do to survive.

If you're not the general in your fantasy then you don't need to keep justifying taking slaves. Let the fantasy general do that so you can just blindly follow orders and sacrifice your life for the great struggle and not have to think so hard about the ethics of your actions.


Esperaux OP wrote

Nun killing democrat? What do American liberals have to do with nun killing?

Social anarchists don't mind people being reclusive. Funny enough I live off in the woods by a mountain too.

Also modes of production aren't something that exist just because people "support" it. Just because someone doesn't support the capitalist mode of production doesn't mean they no longer operate under it.

Also you keep using the slaves and general talking point to deflect. This was an event that happened in reality. It happened in history. A fascist army was attacking and anarchists organized and fought back in response. What do you think should've been done to the POWs in this situation? Do you think people shouldn't have organized to fight back against fascists?