Submitted by ziq in Anarchism (edited )

The biggest one is r/chapotraphouse and its spinoffs, along with r/dankleft, r/breadtube, r/genzanarchist, and probably leftbook and several youtube channels.

Red fascists infiltrate the mod teams of these spaces and initiate left unity policies that successfully ban all criticism of their backwards conservative views. The more vocal opponents of the new policy are quickly purged for breaking left-unity, leaving a more passive audience who are ripe for indoctrination.

Then the propaganda starts. Endless authoritarian memes to normalize gulags, guillotines, firing squads, violent struggle sessions and genocide. Tomes of nonsensical ideological "theory" that serves to brainwash young people who are starved for identity and belonging. Almost immediately, any ideas that conflict with the writings of Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin, Mao and Xi create desperate cognitive dissonance in their minds and the kids angrily lash out at the unindoctrinated for being "libs" and "imperialists" rather than risk parting with their new-found identity.

Once the majority in the space are comfortable joking about murdering "kulaks", and quoting Chinese state media to counter "western propaganda", the shaming campaign begins.

Anyone in the space who breaks with the tankie party line is lambasted and ridiculed into submission. The remaining anarchists in the space now find themselves hopelessly outnumbered by smug middle class white genocide fetishists telling them they're imperialist CIA stooges for thinking the Uighurs maybe shouldn't be put in concentration camps.

In order to not be shunned by their peers, the anarchists adopt an obscene anarcho-tankie ideology that allows them to favor libertarian writers like Chomsky and Kropotkin, while embracing the authoritarian third positionist dogma enforced from the top down by their chosen community.

Uncritical support for every nation (and empire) that opposes the "West", the insistance that anarchism and communism are one and the same because "they have the same end goal", the claim that anarchist communes and an ML state can co-exist in harmony, the attempt to whitewash authoritarian concepts like the dictatorship of the proletariat and the vanguard, the nonsensical belief that they can be an anarchist and also a Marxist. Suddenly they're able to take completely contradicting ideas and fuse them together in order to be accepted by the red fash echo chamber they so desperately want the approval of.

The conflicting ideas grow increasingly out of whack the further down the rabbit hole the left unity space takes them, and the ridicule they get for their remaining libertarian attachments begins to eat at their ego, until finally they post "How I went from an anarkiddie to a principled Marxist-Leninist" and the transition is complete.

Tldr: Left-unity is a deliberate ploy by disturbing groomers to indoctrinate impressionable young minds into their authoritarian third positionist fascist ideology and force them to abandon any libertarian beliefs they once had in order to be accepted within the collective's rigid hierarchy and not be branded a liberal or an anarkiddie for forming their own thoughts or questioning their leaders narratives in any way.

"Left unity" is nothing more than tankie doublespeak for "obey us or be purged".

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ziq OP wrote

One of these days I'll talk about how I successfully infiltrated a major left unity space and used the tankie mods own methods against them to purge them from the mod team and undo the left unity directive.

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Kinshavo wrote

I'm eager to read how the infiltration went. But one thing I noticed that this so called anarchists are being feed watered down Marxism, and shitty Trot/ML propaganda, like ultraliberal stuff (in the amerocan liberal sense). For the real marxists I know these people are a joke. So when we say third-position entryism, it is real, they have an agenda to control the left narrative.

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ziq OP wrote (edited )

I'm eager to read how the infiltration went.

It's hard to talk about it without destroying what I accomplished. If they know they've been played, they'll probably declare moral outrage, purge me and make heroes of the red fashes I got them to turn against. Similar thing happened here a few years ago.

So when we say third-position entryism

Yeah, at some point in the past 5 years, MLs went full dengism and even started embracing LaRouchite fascist theory in order to defend China's atrocities. The owners of lemmy.ml (dessalines / parentis_shotgun) and chapo.chat ( /u/beatnik ) are both really obvious third positionist fascists.

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GlangSnorrisson wrote

A few thoughts:

Grooming is exactly what this is. I don’t think it’s really possible to create these “anarcho-tanks” without some serious manipulation and cult shit. This makes me wonder if there’s a way for anarchists to pull these kids out before the indoctrination is too far along.

It’s also of no surprise to me that this antank monstrosity is largely an American phenomenon. It’s ‘murican patriotism flipped on its head.

I really resent tankies for constantly fucking up everything they touch.

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ziq OP wrote (edited )

This makes me wonder if there’s a way for anarchists to pull these kids out before the indoctrination is too far along.

I tried my best when r/chapotraphouse got banned and hundreds of them made accounts here, but the red fash kept their hooks in them using discord until they were able to herd them all onto their new site. There's no way for raddle to break through an echo chamber on that level, not when collectivists are all looking to be led and dictated to, and raddle is all about telling people to think for themselves and reject all authority. The tankie route is much easier for them because it doesn't require real effort or self reflection. They just need to follow the program, parrot the propaganda, never dissent against party dogma, and they're automatically accepted and are able to feel like members of an elite group of "radicals" without actually doing anything radical. Anarchists ask much more of people and we never rest on our laurels or praise people for their obedience.

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GlangSnorrisson wrote (edited )

You’re right I had forgotten about that exodus.

Personally I enjoy mocking them. Authoritarians take themselves way too seriously and I love to see their over-the-top raging diatribes. Sometimes I wonder if that approach might be helpful to give those smug assholes pause in their dogmatic nonsense.

Either way, it’s not worth it to completely throw away your time or wellbeing just to try and deprogram some kids imo.

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ziq OP wrote

Here's a good example of an anarcho-tankie. Attacks anyone that breaks with tankie dogma while identifying as an "anti-imperialist anarchist". It won't be long before they angrily denounce anarchy altogether and admit to themselves that they're a red fash. You can see after I while I just start mocking them because they're impossible to talk to.

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GlangSnorrisson wrote (edited )

Oh totally. They’re not there in good faith by any means.

I think by the time they’re coming here and shitting up the website they’re too far gone. That person is especially insufferable.

Honestly I think you’re right to mock them. It’s not worth it dealing with their shit. Personally I skip straight to mocking.

No, I think that if there’s any hope for any of them they’d have to still be (confused) baby anarchists. After that phase it’s over.

Edit: to be clear, I’m not trying to suggest that we “ought to” engage with antanks to “rescue” them or whatever, I was more just musing about whether or not they’re all beyond help.

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ziq OP wrote

I think these people have all been brainwashed by the redfash cult and don't even realize how poisoned by ideology they are. Anyone who thinks vanguards are anarchist, actually is so far gone that I'd agree it's not worth the effort to try and deprogram them. Anyone who embraces a racist genocidal cult to fit in is never going to make a good anarchist.

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GlangSnorrisson wrote (edited )

Yeah I prefer putting people like that to good use when they come here: mock them relentlessly to vent some stress.

It also avoids them somehow thinking that I take them seriously.

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BlackFlagged wrote

All these shitty places work together to feed the cult. For example, here's r/dankleft pushing chapo.chat. They censored and banned me for linking to raddle:

https://old.reddit.com/r/DankLeft/comments/ihhy68/to_the_chapoids_among_us_we_have_our_own/

My censored comment:

https://archive.fo/tY1F8

Or if you're not into China's political establishment, raddle.me

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GlangSnorrisson wrote

Personally I’m excited for when these clowns start an irl cult Communist Party for Revolution of the People or some shit.

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bloodrose wrote (edited )

Thanks for writing this. I find it very useful and interesting. I would like it in a wiki somewhere so we can reference it when talking with people about the problems with tankies and left unity. (Or are these points from the Tankies wiki post already?)

I worry about how many of these pro-china posts we're seeing lately.

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ziq OP wrote

I guess w/tankies makes similar points but this is easier to digest so I guess I'll give it a new wiki entry.

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bloodrose wrote

I agree. It really was easily digestible. :) Thanks again for writing it!!

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GlangSnorrisson wrote

Interesting. I can’t speak for anyone else but when I saw that I burst out laughing. I’m not sure how anyone but the incredibly clueless would see that nonsense and agree with it.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s creepy doublespeak for sure. But if an “anarchist“ falls for that, I’d say we dodged a bullet.

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piranc wrote

I would probably fall for that in my early days, people can always learn.

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GlangSnorrisson wrote

Hey! Look, my comment was pretty harsh, but I genuinely don’t mean this in a judgemental or mean way: what about that would have seemed compelling to you?

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piranc wrote

It wasn't offensive, I'm cool.

When someone starts to see the injustices of the capitalist world, everything seems to be an organized chaos, everyone is against you or someone you know.

After the shock we start seeking alternatives, so we can change things for better, then comes the first contact with leftist ideologies and it's a new world where everyone wants people to live better lives through different means, everyone knows and read kilos of books, use words you never saw anywhere and you feel lost.

When someone who's not experienced, read a tweet from an account specifically made to talk about leftist things, you assume they're right even when it seems sketchy as they probably read all those books of old bearded man with hard to pronounce names.

In this tweet I don't know if I would believe, but I can see the appeal if worded in another way, as my path was:

  1. Seeing how capitalism is unfair and oppressive.
  2. Can't we just be cool with each other?
  3. Find alternatives.
  4. Wow, there's so much knowledge here.
  5. Those guys don't like each other even if they want something similar.
  6. I don't know where I stand.

Then you see "oh, it all the same with different extras", you don't feel like you need to "pick a side" in the left. That's appealing to someone who suddenly felt lost about how the world works.

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GlangSnorrisson wrote

Thank you for sharing that. I guess it makes sense if you’re new to all this stuff especially given the confidence with which tankies speak (none of which is justifiable) it could be compelling that way.

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piranc wrote

No problem. I see so many acquaintances that are supportive of human rights but feel excluded from discussions because of the knowledge gap and sometimes I need to translate if it's something "good or bad". Doing it without bias and motivating them to think critically for future situations where I'm not present is hard.

Those are the people who are being "groomed" by "left-unity", without knowledge to analyze, things are repeated.

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celebratedrecluse wrote

anyone else mailing in some fake USA ballots for PSL? The chaos factory has been working overtime, i have so many labour voucher

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cinic_acid wrote

Anarcho-tankies are a non-problem

And left unity is as much grooming as any other discourse. Your enemies are not the boogeyman

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GlangSnorrisson wrote

fascism is fine if it’s red enough.

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RichOldWhiteMan wrote (edited )

How dialectical comrade. My dearest Stalin would be proud uwu.

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GlangSnorrisson wrote (edited )

Fucking anarkiddies. How are you supposed to emancipate the people without repressing and murdering them?

You see, according to very basic dialectics, the people will be liberated if they are oppressed. Why? Because Marx said so I’m pretty sure.

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ziq OP wrote

because it's not like that ideology has ever killed or enslaved entire populations

Oh wait

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celebratedrecluse wrote

Well, the problem with electoralist and authcom entryism, is that it really saps energy away from anything else. it actually does have a parasitic relationship with direct action, and it's the main reason why a capitalist government will actually allow small scale authoritarian communist organizations to exist on paper: they do a good role, making sure to absorb and create a sustainable and relatively non threatening entity out of more unpredictable and unchallenged working or marginalized classes.

These parties are factories for the reproduction of society, like the universities to which so many of them are closely associated with, or the moderate national labor unions they might work with, or the churches whose place in the social order they self-consciously took.

If you're trying to rid yourself of the arrangement of misery, i think it is important to confront why people are invariably pulled back to the allure of the state, even literal anarchists.

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