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ziq OP wrote

As a reasonable person, I think sealing USAmerica in a giant bubble and launching it into space is a justified hierarchy.


MC_Cookies wrote (edited )

they never seem to say where the line is between justified hierarchy and unjustified hierarchy, which makes me think that maybe they actually have no idea what they're talking about.


GlangSnorrisson wrote

they have no idea what they’re talking about

Sadly this doesn’t stop them from talking about it.


ziq OP wrote (edited )

The line is wherever "reasonable people" decide it is, apparently.

These clowns really have no understanding of power dynamics or how authority forms. They think authority can be controlled with "reason", because that's what mob rule prizes above all else.


CaptainACAB wrote (edited )

facts, if it is consented to it’s not hiearchy

They let Ancaps in there?

This is such a tired and honestly boring debate, because Chomsky is clearly not saying that abusive power structures are legitimate. He’s saying that power must be held accountable, and when they’re not held accountable is when they are hierarchical.


This is one of those cases where if your ideology is opposed to common sense, change your ideology. Kids absolutely need authority. If your kid is running toward a busy road, are you going to beg them to stop while you jog alongside them explaining why getting hit by a car is a bad idea? Or are you going to (authoritatively) grab their arm and pull them back? I know which one I'd do, and if that doesn't make me an anarchist, so be it.






It doesn't matter if a hierarchy is "justified" or not. I'm going to want it to die.


ziq OP wrote

Idk fam, you seem to be (authoritatively) telling them them to stfu. If that doesn't make you an anarchist, so be it.


CaptainACAB wrote

It's fine, I made a hierarchy with myself on the top, so I'm a justified authority.


ziq OP wrote (edited )

As the official representative of The People™, I officially approve your justified authority.


bloodrose wrote

The candy analogy is a bad one. Because it turns out limiting candy makes children eat the candy when they are allowed to eat it, even if they aren't hungry. This leads to the child learning unnatural physical behaviors that lead to chronic overeating. As a parent, I do not limit my child's intake of candy at all. Having done that, I find she isn't all the interested in it. She eats maybe a serving of fruit snacks a day because that's about how much concentrated sugar her body can deal with. As a child, I had a lot of food restrictions. I now eat for pleasure almost to the exclusion of need.


Ennui wrote

You could feasibly build a justified hierarchy out of consent and antecedent mental states. It’d just be so strict that a justified hierarchy wouldn’t be a hierarchy at all. Like BDSM, but the relationship ceases to have a hierarchy the moment one party doesn’t consent (i.e. a mechanism of some sort causes the dominator to remove the restraints).

Agent-based theories are boring though.


ziq OP wrote

BDSM is just an authority fetish tbh


Ennui wrote

Do you think that BDSM is inversely or directly proportional with how authoritarian a society is?