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ConquestOfToast wrote

Humans are a part of nature, yes, and so are animals and plants. Why do we get the "natural" (as you call literally anything, apparently) right to authority over these beings?

I don't want nor do I advocate for authority over animals and plants. In fact I'd argue that it's our responsibility to preserve them, and seeing as we are in the unique position of not only understanding intimately what is happening to our environment and the long lasting effects many of our practices have, it's our duty to own up to and fix our mistakes.

I'm curious why you think I am apathetic? I'm not waiting for it, I'm preparing for it and trying not to make it worse than it already will be.

This is the equivalent of hitting someone with your car, and then refusing to call for help because your convinced the gurgling body in front of you is dead anyway, so why try. It's apathy, because to me, giving a shit means actively engaging in solving the problems we've created, hunkering down to wait it out is the laziest position to take.

What tools are you referring to, and how do they grant us independence? Is independence possible without the skills to live without any other human or technology helping you? I don't think it is. If the farmers stop growing food, or the scientists stop manufacturing protein, and I can no longer live because they stopped, am I independent? Of course not.

You do know humans are social creatures right? If there is such a thing as human nature, it necessitates communal involvement. None of us is truly or completely independent, or liberation is necessitated by our community also engaging in liberation.

It's actually to not ever let massive-die offs happen.

I'm curious why you think I am apathetic? I'm not waiting for it, I'm preparing for it and trying not to make it worse than it already will be.

The tools we currently have do not work. I don't gamble with the future of life, and as such I will not rely on the scientists (whom I would be dependent on), to invent brand new technology which will save the planet, because none of their technology has proven helpful, and it is not proving helpful currently.

Oh please, don't act so pious. Even I admit it's a gamble to engage in saving this planet. There's no doubt about that. But in your case, the gamble is everything will survive, or some will, mostly. I'm not guaranteeing some miracle technology, I'm saying we need to look harder at solutions to undo what we've done. You might be right that none of this is salvageable, shit I'm scared you're right, but sitting back and do nothing has never helped, and if shit is doomed anyway, we might as well try. IF any humans survive the impending ecological disaster, there sure as shit not going to look at people like you as a model of how to act.