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rot wrote

I like it except for this bit

"those who voted Brexit and Trump as a big “fuck you” to the establishment. They are punks too, and we lament that the Left has been so preoccupied with being nice, professional, and reasonable, encouraging many of these promising punks to vote for a new breed of white supremacists and oligarchs."

as if conservatives are in anyway punk. as if we want people like that in a degrowth movement

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Bezotcovschina wrote

Was thinking about it lately, and think I agree with the author of this article. Of course, not all Trump/Brexit supporters are "punks", but significant part, probably, are. I belive, a lot of them did it on a single purpose to hurt the "establishment".

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celebratedrecluse wrote (edited )

there are great radical reasons to oppose the European Union, and basically none of them were movers in the decision to close Britain's borders to immigrants, prepare for a hard border in occupied Ireland, and inflate prices of essential goods on the poor.

as far as Trump, I think a similar analytic may apply. There are great many reasons to oppose Clinton branded neoliberalism, and none of them were important to peoples' decision to cast votes for the other neoliberal and embolden anti-immigrant sentiment.

It was certainly, in both cases, a huge reason why so many people didn't vote or care in either of these cases. But to vote for such things, that is another matter entirely.

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rot wrote

certain (right wing) libertarian types yeah but conservatives are not revolting against the status quo by voting trump, they're against obama and what they see as 'socialist' liberalism. any talk about being against the 'elites' or the state is just a fancy way of being against progressive liberals and the 'other'

ask a rightwinger who the elites are, it's not billionaires or nigel farage or whatever.

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Ganggang wrote

Not “degrowth”. Destroy the economy

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rot wrote

degrowth would include that no? degrowth includes leaving capitalism behind includes leaving labor-centric communism behind

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Ganggang wrote

degrowth to me implies that it would still exist, just be smaller. I don’t want this, I want the economy to be gone. If the construct of property is removed it can’t exist

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rot wrote

degrowth refers to production not he system. capitalism requires growth so being against economic growth is being against capitalism

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Ganggang wrote

I mean I guess? But I see how this could be used to simply implement austerity. And If there’s “less” production there’s still production, which implies the selling of the production.

Like rallying around “degrowth” seems to me like rallying around “less war”. The point is no war. The point is no economy

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rot wrote (edited )

not what I've read ¯\‿(ツ)‿/¯

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