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Argument Help?

Submitted by SpacePirate in ACAB

Hi all. This is a pretty petty concern, but here goes:

I’m relatively new to radical leftism. I’m not confident in most of my arguing stragegies or points and still trying to weed out any remaining liberalism.

On a social media site someone responded to the “black males were 3x more likely to be killed by the police than white males” statistic by saying “AND the reason? it comes down to actions, young black males, when adjusted by population, are 3 times more likely to take part in behaviors that lead to this kind of outcome”

I got heated about this and said “Really? You’re that desperate to justify police brutality that you’ll attribute a behavior to an entire group of people based off of their race and age? That’s called racism, you fuck. And it’s the same racism that’s driving these pigs to kill unarmed young black men. Of course you defend them because you are one of them.” Which probably wasn’t the best argument I could have given and not delivered in a very calculated way.

Anyway, he has since responded with “since you are a moron (this comment proves it) I will explain, it the ACTIONS of this group that leads to outcomes. black young men make up 6% of the population yet commit almost 50% of the violent crimes, mostly against other blacks, you want to speak of racism?? the number of blacks killed by white cops is miniscule compared to whites killed by white cops, but idiots only believe it's a problem when it's a black that gets shot, are there bad cops? absolutely, are all young black men thugs? not even, you because you can't think past your nose you don't comprehend the underlying issues that lead to things like this, you jus want to jump on the bandwagon with other morons and claim racism”

Now obviously this is the wrong way of thinking about it all but I’m having a difficult time putting a counter arguement into words and attacking it from any one specific angle. How would you all respond to this? Biased data? Blaming the horrible situation POC are raised in in the U.S? Was my initial attack valid or no?

Let me know if I should post this somewhere else. ACAB :)

Comments

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6

Ant wrote (edited )

I imagine that 50% of violent crimes point is a bullshit/thumbsucked stat

and further, these are probably convictions

which just reflects that the prison complex is systemically racist
cops are racist arresting people, judges are racist sentencing them

white cops overwhelmingly murder and incarcerate more black people than other whites per capita, I'm sure
His stats are shit and disingenuous.
And it's absurd to propose that white cops kill more whites but somehow managed to incarcerate way more black people while not killing them

perhaps also the acab wiki will have points to assist you

w/Abolish_Police

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Pirate wrote (edited )

Heres a good article talking about "Black on black" crime and it's regarding rates. Why We Never Talk About Black-on-Black Crime: An Answer to White America’s Most Pressing Question
Other than that, I'd just go with how biased the law can be towards POC, even more so if they are already being sized up as criminals before even being tried. And plus (as you said again) the horrid situation/areas they grow up in. But this is a bit harder to back up, even more so to people of the such.

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sudo wrote

I would back up my own claims with evidence, and ask him to show what evidence he has to back up his claims. Usually the types of evidence these people bring up don't actually support their claims, but read through it anyways, to see if it does. Also, be prepared for them to say the same thing about your evidence (and make sure it is actual evidence, and not something written by one of the many left wing crackpots!). Make sure you've brushed up on your logical fallacies, so you can be ready to explain any fallacious reasoning they make, and also to ensure you don't make any yourself - even if what you are saying is correct, if you use fallacious arguments to support it, and the other person realizes they are fallacious, they may not listen to any other, valid arguments you make.

If this person is still capable of critical thinking, you might be able to convince them if you make evidence-based arguments. If they seem like they're stuck in their mindset, then don't waste your time. Good luck.

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PurpleDaisy wrote

Don't get heated.
Most of the time, it's impossible to convince someone to think a different way.
Just think about the issue in a positive light.
If his thinking is that "blacks are killed 3x as much because they engage in risky behavior 3x as much", it's good reasoning so I probably wouldn't say anything if he didn't provide the study.

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NEOalquimista wrote

Also try to avoid being offensive (although the temptation to do it is strong), or it will only trigger their irrational mood more quickly. Even the most stubborn people can be made to think if the conditions are right. So if you think of a way to say something without sounding like you're confronting the other person directly, it might work better and make them listen more carefully.

For example, when talking about anarchy, you can avoid saying "anarchy" and instead talk about mutual aid happening in countries devastated by storms, which can also take the conversation to climate change - a consequence of capitalism.

By inserting these subjects into a conversation, you're giving the person a new foundation for thought. If the person is to realize capitalism is bad, they will have to realize on their own, because you can't put an idea on someone's mind.